Interesting Powder for 9mm Luger

[noylj]

>I imagine these loads that Speer recommends for the 9mm Luger cartridge would be scary, and bone jarring, too...

Why? Cartridge can't generate enough recoil to be jarring. Powder is not going to be jarring.
I found that Blue Dot is a great powder for max velocity in 9x19. I couldn't even get enough powder in the case for bullets less than 115gn to reach max pressure.
Only problem I had was putting my finger on the case mouth as the shell plate rotates as the charge filled the cases. Compressed loads are no problem.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by noylj

>I imagine these loads that Speer recommends for the 9mm Luger cartridge would be scary, and bone jarring, too...

Why? Cartridge can't generate enough recoil to be jarring. Powder is not going to be jarring.
I found that Blue Dot is a great powder for max velocity in 9x19. I couldn't even get enough powder in the case for bullets less than 115gn to reach max pressure.
Only problem I had was putting my finger on the case mouth as the shell plate rotates as the charge filled the cases. Compressed loads are no problem.

Hi,

Pressure isn't really the problem, breach block slap is.


Sieger

[ChrisLL]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

Pressure isn't really the problem, breach block slap is.


Sieger

Hi Sieger,

I never thought of this, and assumed high pressure was responsible for breach block slap and didn't give it a lot of thought, but after thinking about this a bit I totally agree. Thanks for the wake-up call.

I am trying to get a handle on these Lugers as far as reloading still. I wish it was as simple as trying one of your favorite loads, but I have limited powders available; recently all I have been able to buy is Titegroup which is pretty quick-burning. I have had decent functioning at starting and near starting loads, so I really don't believe pressure is an issue. I have seen a little bit of breach block slap though which I don't like.

Is it the burn rate that causes BBS, or is it some other powder characteristic?

I just noticed after typing this that Blue Dot is fairly slow, so maybe it is something else that causes this other than burn rate?

There has been some of the VihtaVuori powder around locally but I have avoided it as 1) It's quite expensive 2) I don't have any history with it. But ... maybe I should try some VV N330 if I can find some locally - it's right by Power Pistol in burn rate. Thoughts?

Chris

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ChrisLL

... it's right by Power Pistol in burn rate. Thoughts?

Chris

These days my thought is if it is available, I will buy the powder that takes the least amount to work the action. I have Blue Dot but it takes twice as much (or more) of Blue Dot than, say, W231 or Red Dot to get the same effect. That means I can only get half the amount of reloads out of a pound of powder. I no longer care about the most accurate load [quality], I'm going for quantity. There was a time when I tried different bullets, different weights, different powders, etc. Now I stick with what works and the least amount of it.

I'll leave it to you young guys to sort out what is 'best'.

[stressed]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

Pressure isn't really the problem, breach block slap is.


Sieger

This.

If one had a cheap Russian capture or mismatched, if you could custom make a 50lb+ recoil spring, you could fire +P+, 9mm Major, what your hearts content. I feel the luger can take it, may be more beating on extractor - but you want to prevent the action from overextending and hitting the frame.

You would defiantly feel the extra pressure just cocking the gun. Standard loads most likely would not cycle the weapon.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by ChrisLL

Hi Sieger,

I never thought of this, and assumed high pressure was responsible for breach block slap and didn't give it a lot of thought, but after thinking about this a bit I totally agree. Thanks for the wake-up call.

I am trying to get a handle on these Lugers as far as reloading still. I wish it was as simple as trying one of your favorite loads, but I have limited powders available; recently all I have been able to buy is Titegroup which is pretty quick-burning. I have had decent functioning at starting and near starting loads, so I really don't believe pressure is an issue. I have seen a little bit of breach block slap though which I don't like.

Is it the burn rate that causes BBS, or is it some other powder characteristic?

I just noticed after typing this that Blue Dot is fairly slow, so maybe it is something else that causes this other than burn rate?

There has been some of the VihtaVuori powder around locally but I have avoided it as 1) It's quite expensive 2) I don't have any history with it. But ... maybe I should try some VV N330 if I can find some locally - it's right by Power Pistol in burn rate. Thoughts?

Chris

Chris,

VV 3N37 is a good powder for the 9mm, as it was designed, specifically, as a 9mm military powder. With 3N37, I get the desired velocity and the desired accuracy I'm looking for.

Tight Group was tested by me years ago. For me, it was too fast and not all that accurate; generally a mediocre powder at best. With Tight Group velocity wasn't a problem, but accuracy was.

Breach Block Slap is something you can really feel in the web of your hand. The last time I experience it was with some red hot Chinese ammo. In fact, this ammo was so hot, the pistol reacted as if it wanted to jump out of my hand!!!

For many of the faster powders, I can not reach the accuracy level I want before the system "overloads" and starts the slapping process. The medium and medium/slow powders give you more "room" to find an accurate load, that will function your Luger perfectly, before the slapping process occurs.

If you will only be target shooting, I suggest Bullseye Powder. For 124 gr. bullets, my accuracy load is only 3.7 grs. I've shot 7 touching with this load, and it develops adequate power to properly function the action reliably. With this powder, you can achieve excellent accuracy, while maintaining low, non-threating pressures and velocities.

Here is my specific load:

Winchester Commercial Cases
Remington 1 1/2 Primers
Hornady 124 gr. FMJFP (the so called Airforce Bullet)
O.A.L. 28.7 mm (critical for jam free operation
Bullseye Powder 3.7 grs.

Good shooting!!


Sieger

[ChrisLL]

Thanks again Sieger!

This is starting to make more sense (I think). I guess I will see if there is any of the 3N37 around here, and if not hold off until I can get some Bullseye when I get out of town.

I have had pretty good results with Titegroup in my 44 mag with light target loads, but I agree it does not seem to be a good powder for my Luger.

Chris

[ChrisLL]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Chris,

VV 3N37 is a good powder for the 9mm, as it was designed, specifically, as a 9mm military powder. With 3N37, I get the desired velocity and the desired accuracy I'm looking for.

Tight Group was tested by me years ago. For me, it was too fast and not all that accurate; generally a mediocre powder at best. With Tight Group velocity wasn't a problem, but accuracy was.

Breach Block Slap is something you can really feel in the web of your hand. The last time I experience it was with some red hot Chinese ammo. In fact, this ammo was so hot, the pistol reacted as if it wanted to jump out of my hand!!!

For many of the faster powders, I can not reach the accuracy level I want before the system "overloads" and starts the slapping process. The medium and medium/slow powders give you more "room" to find an accurate load, that will function your Luger perfectly, before the slapping process occurs.

If you will only be target shooting, I suggest Bullseye Powder. For 124 gr. bullets, my accuracy load is only 3.7 grs. I've shot 7 touching with this load, and it develops adequate power to properly function the action reliably. With this powder, you can achieve excellent accuracy, while maintaining low, non-threating pressures and velocities.

Here is my specific load:

Winchester Commercial Cases
Remington 1 1/2 Primers
Hornady 124 gr. FMJFP (the so called Airforce Bullet)
O.A.L. 28.7 mm (critical for jam free operation
Bullseye Powder 3.7 grs.

Good shooting!!


Sieger

Hello again Sieger,

I was able to get hold of some Bullseye powder! Waiting for some 125g. cast bullets and right now have only 115 g. bullets. Any suggestions for Bullseye for 115g.?

Thanks! - Chris

[mrerick]

For those looking (and handgun powders have been in remarkably short supply recently) Winchester 231 is exactly the same powder as Hodgden HP-38. Most books that list W-231 also have exactly the same load data listed under HP-38. With less marketing expense, HP-38 has traditionally been priced a little lower than the Winchester powder.

If anyone sees availability of either powder, please PM me. I'm getting down to the last pound...

Marc

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by ChrisLL

Hello again Sieger,

I was able to get hold of some Bullseye powder! Waiting for some 125g. cast bullets and right now have only 115 g. bullets. Any suggestions for Bullseye for 115g.?

Thanks! - Chris

Hi,

By the way, which brand of FMJ 115s are you using?

For FMJ 115s, 3.8 grs of Bullseye is my accuracy load.


Sieger

[ChrisLL]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

By the way, which brand of FMJ 115s are you using?

For FMJ 115s, 3.8 grs of Bullseye is my accuracy load.


Sieger

Thanks Sieger, helpful info.

Very limited supply of Remington FMJ right now. Also have many 115 g. Xtreme plated. I know most folks here don't care for/use the plated. I will try to find an accurate load for those though as well. if not I will stay with the FMJ although I need to scrounge up some more.

I also have on order (I think 6 weeks ago and they are running 6-8 weeks behind) some 124 g (125 g.?) cast bullets. Would you suggest starting with 3.7 g. Bullseye for those as well?

Thanks,
Chris

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by ChrisLL

Thanks Sieger, helpful info.

Very limited supply of Remington FMJ right now. Also have many 115 g. Xtreme plated. I know most folks here don't care for/use the plated. I will try to find an accurate load for those though as well. if not I will stay with the FMJ although I need to scrounge up some more.

I also have on order (I think 6 weeks ago and they are running 6-8 weeks behind) some 124 g (125 g.?) cast bullets. Would you suggest starting with 3.7 g. Bullseye for those as well?

Thanks,
Chris

Chris,

It sure would.

Sieger