Damaged breech block/lots of brass

04-23-2002, 09:16 PM

Hi all.

I picked up a shooter the other day and while cleaning it after about 100 rounds fired, I noticed the top right of my breechblock had a chip taken out of the corner directly to the right of the extractor where the extractor rests in the BB. (looking at the pistol as if aiming it) I want to say that chip was not there when I bought the pistol as I would have questioned it.

Anyone else have this happen? Is this now a safety issue?

I've also noticed copious amounts of small brass filings and dust throughout the inside of the pistol during cleaning. I figure the extractor is the culprit because I can't see any rough edges or burrs around the chamber. But that doesn't mean there aren't any.

To date I've fired 50 rnds of UMC 115 grn fmj, 50 rnds of Winchester 115 grn fmj, and one rnd of Wolf steel cased fmj.

This being my first P08, any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

Terrapin-

04-23-2002, 09:44 PM

What is the date of the Luger? Does it have a fluted firing pin? I have seen this before and I don't think that it hurts the integrity (saftey) of the pistol as long as the small "chip" is the extent of the breach block damage. Depending on how you answer the second question, I would suspect the cause of this damage was a ruptured primer. The force (if I'm right) blew upward and chiped the corner of the bolt overhang. I think, if I understand your description correctly of the damage, that if you check...you will see that the extractor does not put force on this exact area.

04-23-2002, 10:38 PM

The date is 1918/20, but the reciever is not matching to rest of gun. The grips seem E. German from what I have read. The barrel has no markings at all. The center toggle link is stamped Erfurt and the numbers match most of the rest of the pistol. The pin is fluted.

It sounds like you understand my description of the damaged area.

Thanks for your reply.

Terrapin-

04-23-2002, 10:42 PM

What significance does a fluted firing pin hold?

Thanks,

Terrapin

04-23-2002, 10:47 PM

My best guess is still a blown primer, although the fluted FP should have prevented the damage. Often the force is channeled back thru the FP hole and drive a non-fluted FP like a piston into the rear of the FP retainer and break the rear of the breach block. In this case and others I've seen, it appears that the force traveled upward. Maybe someone here can offer a better explaination but I don't see any way that the extractor would have (in normal operation) had enough force to do this, esp. when you consider it is moving up againist a lot of spring tension.

04-23-2002, 10:52 PM

I guess we posted at the same time. The fluted pin will bleed the excess gas back thru the breech block rather than traping it between the the front of the firing pin (shoulder) and the forward part of the breech block. Did any of the rounds sound strange upon firing? The East German re-works are considered high quality.

04-23-2002, 11:01 PM

Thanks for the info. I think we did post at the same time.

None of the rnds sounded strange.

Thanks again,

Terrapin-

Roadkill · 04-23-2002, 11:02 PM

By no means am I a technician, but I've read that Lugers are succeptible to this as mentioned without the fluted firing pins and that hard/hot primers cause the problem. Maybe the ammo?

Roadkill

Luke · 04-23-2002, 11:02 PM

We have discussed this issue on the Forum a number of times. I have 3 shooters from the WW-I era and have replaced all the firing pins with fluted versions. I can't personally guarantee that it will save the breech block, but for a few bucks why take a chance? You can usually get fluted firing pins from Tom Heller. They won't be numbered to your gun, but they are out of sight anyway. Best of luck in resolving your problem. Luke

04-23-2002, 11:06 PM

move along. nothing to see here.

unspellable · 04-23-2002, 11:40 PM

Assuming a blown primer and it behaves like a nice centered up blown primer should, a fluted firing pin should bleed off the gas. The rub is, blown primers ain't nice. The primer could let go in a direction that's away from the firing pin hole while obturating the hole. The primer may not have been well centered at loading.

As a horrible example, I have a factory loaded 25 ACP cartridge with the primer in sideways. I did not catch this and it misfired. But just think of the ugly mess it would have made if it had fired. It would have been gruesume. Especially since cheap pocket pistols are not noted for advanced safety features like bleed off porting.

unspellable

04-24-2002, 12:09 PM

Thanks for the information, it makes sense to me and offers a possible expaination to what happened in this case. I should have added that a careful inspection of several spent cases (under a glass)will reveal if there are any burrs in the feeding or extraction cycle to account for the brass slivers that were found. I suspect that the "brass dust" was also consistant with a blown primer.

Barry Briscoe · 04-24-2002, 02:26 PM

You might want to check the headspace also to rule that out.The brass case may have cracked or separated.

04-25-2002, 01:24 PM

If you Luger is not a collectors piece---you can add flutes to the firing pin with a Dremal tool using a cutting wheel. Have done it several times. Put a cartridge in chamber and measure head protrousion. If it "don't stick out" at least 60 thousands---you are asking for a punctured primer and thereby stripped out breach block. Blocks can sometimes be fixed with careful installation of a small screw.

04-23-2002, 09:16 PM	#1
Terrapin Guest Posts: n/a	Damaged breech block/lots of brass Hi all. I picked up a shooter the other day and while cleaning it after about 100 rounds fired, I noticed the top right of my breechblock had a chip taken out of the corner directly to the right of the extractor where the extractor rests in the BB. (looking at the pistol as if aiming it) I want to say that chip was not there when I bought the pistol as I would have questioned it. Anyone else have this happen? Is this now a safety issue? I've also noticed copious amounts of small brass filings and dust throughout the inside of the pistol during cleaning. I figure the extractor is the culprit because I can't see any rough edges or burrs around the chamber. But that doesn't mean there aren't any. To date I've fired 50 rnds of UMC 115 grn fmj, 50 rnds of Winchester 115 grn fmj, and one rnd of Wolf steel cased fmj. This being my first P08, any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks for reading. Terrapin-

04-23-2002, 09:44 PM	#2
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Damaged breech block/lots of brass What is the date of the Luger? Does it have a fluted firing pin? I have seen this before and I don't think that it hurts the integrity (saftey) of the pistol as long as the small "chip" is the extent of the breach block damage. Depending on how you answer the second question, I would suspect the cause of this damage was a ruptured primer. The force (if I'm right) blew upward and chiped the corner of the bolt overhang. I think, if I understand your description correctly of the damage, that if you check...you will see that the extractor does not put force on this exact area.

04-23-2002, 10:38 PM	#3
Terrapin Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Damaged breech block/lots of brass The date is 1918/20, but the reciever is not matching to rest of gun. The grips seem E. German from what I have read. The barrel has no markings at all. The center toggle link is stamped Erfurt and the numbers match most of the rest of the pistol. The pin is fluted. It sounds like you understand my description of the damaged area. Thanks for your reply. Terrapin-

04-23-2002, 10:42 PM	#4
Terrapin Guest Posts: n/a	Re:fluted firing pin What significance does a fluted firing pin hold? Thanks, Terrapin

04-23-2002, 10:47 PM	#5
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Damaged breech block/lots of brass My best guess is still a blown primer, although the fluted FP should have prevented the damage. Often the force is channeled back thru the FP hole and drive a non-fluted FP like a piston into the rear of the FP retainer and break the rear of the breach block. In this case and others I've seen, it appears that the force traveled upward. Maybe someone here can offer a better explaination but I don't see any way that the extractor would have (in normal operation) had enough force to do this, esp. when you consider it is moving up againist a lot of spring tension.

04-23-2002, 10:52 PM	#6
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	Re:fluted firing pin I guess we posted at the same time. The fluted pin will bleed the excess gas back thru the breech block rather than traping it between the the front of the firing pin (shoulder) and the forward part of the breech block. Did any of the rounds sound strange upon firing? The East German re-works are considered high quality.

04-23-2002, 11:01 PM	#7
Terrapin Guest Posts: n/a	Re:fluted firing pin Thanks for the info. I think we did post at the same time. None of the rnds sounded strange. Thanks again, Terrapin-

04-23-2002, 11:02 PM	#8
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Re:fluted firing pin By no means am I a technician, but I've read that Lugers are succeptible to this as mentioned without the fluted firing pins and that hard/hot primers cause the problem. Maybe the ammo? Roadkill

04-23-2002, 11:02 PM	#9
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Fluted Firing Pins We have discussed this issue on the Forum a number of times. I have 3 shooters from the WW-I era and have replaced all the firing pins with fluted versions. I can't personally guarantee that it will save the breech block, but for a few bucks why take a chance? You can usually get fluted firing pins from Tom Heller. They won't be numbered to your gun, but they are out of sight anyway. Best of luck in resolving your problem. Luke

04-23-2002, 11:06 PM	#10
Terrapin Guest Posts: n/a	thanks all. (EOM) move along. nothing to see here.

04-23-2002, 11:40 PM	#11
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Damaged breech block/lots of brass Assuming a blown primer and it behaves like a nice centered up blown primer should, a fluted firing pin should bleed off the gas. The rub is, blown primers ain't nice. The primer could let go in a direction that's away from the firing pin hole while obturating the hole. The primer may not have been well centered at loading. As a horrible example, I have a factory loaded 25 ACP cartridge with the primer in sideways. I did not catch this and it misfired. But just think of the ugly mess it would have made if it had fired. It would have been gruesume. Especially since cheap pocket pistols are not noted for advanced safety features like bleed off porting. unspellable

04-24-2002, 12:09 PM	#12
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	unspellable Thanks for the information, it makes sense to me and offers a possible expaination to what happened in this case. I should have added that a careful inspection of several spent cases (under a glass)will reveal if there are any burrs in the feeding or extraction cycle to account for the brass slivers that were found. I suspect that the "brass dust" was also consistant with a blown primer.

04-24-2002, 02:26 PM	#13
Barry Briscoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Headspace You might want to check the headspace also to rule that out.The brass case may have cracked or separated.

04-25-2002, 01:24 PM	#14
Art Buchanan Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Fluted Firing Pins If you Luger is not a collectors piece---you can add flutes to the firing pin with a Dremal tool using a cutting wheel. Have done it several times. Put a cartridge in chamber and measure head protrousion. If it "don't stick out" at least 60 thousands---you are asking for a punctured primer and thereby stripped out breach block. Blocks can sometimes be fixed with careful installation of a small screw.