Question on Swiss?

PEB · 02-10-2015, 08:58 PM

Hi All
I have been offered this Swiss model and was wondering if the experts could chime in as far as value and desirability. This would be my 1st Swiss Luger and am still learning as far as these go.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Paul

mrerick · 02-10-2015, 09:01 PM

The one you picture was made by DWM in Berlin for the Swiss.

Some of these were shipped in the white and final finished by the Swiss. The one you're looking at has the Swiss cross in Sunburst, and is an earlier variation than mine...

In general the Swiss made guns and the German made ones for the Swiss embody the definition of high precision. They are my favorite Lugers. They have higher valuation.

This picture shows the major variations... DWM M1900, DWM M1900/06, W+F M1900/06 Waffenfabrik Bern, and W+F 06/29 Waffenfabrik Bern.

Sergio Natali · 02-11-2015, 04:33 AM

I think Marc has already given you all the basic information about your gun.
Swiss Lugers are among my favourite.
In my opinion to get a deeper informations some closer and more detailed pictures of your Luger would help.
Your gun is a so called "New Model" a "commercial" one made presumably between 1906 - 1914
Basically is like a Swiss Army 1900/06 with the exception of the barrel chamber junction with a German kind of thread and the wooden magazine bottom wihout any metallic insert.
On the underside of the barel you should be able to see the German proofmarks the BUG or the crowned capital "N" with the figure 172,28 which means the caliber explained in the old English system (number of lead bullets in that diameter that at the time they could make with a pound of lead)
It's quite a nice gun, but as I said detailed pictures would help to give a better opinion about blueing and markings on your Parabellum.

Sergio

Stucki · 02-11-2015, 04:59 PM

also a Swiss barrel without Geman proofmarks is possible - some Swiss commercial Lugers 1906 were delivered from Germany without barrels

Alexander

Ben M. · 02-11-2015, 06:30 PM

may be a 1920 luger. i think the serial numbers on the left side is not for military.

PEB · 02-11-2015, 08:02 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys!!! Does anyone have an idea on value?

mrerick · 02-11-2015, 11:08 PM

Per Ben's post, this could be a standard (non-Swiss) DWM M1900/06 that had the Swiss cross over starburst added later. None of the Swiss Lugers photographed in Bobba or Datig have a serial number there. In that position there should be an acceptance punch, a small cross. Also the number on the rear of the rear toggle should be the three last digits of the serial number, not just two. (Corrected below... should be two digits...).

The cross in sunburst would be correct for this serial number. Datig and Bobba say it changed to the shield at about number 10,000.

If correct, Datig says that this was from the 1908 shipment to the Swiss.

Take a good sharp closeup of the cross in starburst. That might help with further identification.

Marc

Stucki · 02-12-2015, 04:34 PM

This is a typical Swiss Commercial 1906, delivered after WW I. The SN on this place is correct for this variation. 2 digits on the rear toogle is ok as well - only DWM Lugers 1906 assembled by W+F Bern have 3 digits.

Alexander

Sergio Natali · 02-18-2015, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Sergio, I have not read of a difference between Swiss and German barrel thread...Could you explain/describe further???

The German type of barrel chamber was supposed to have a shorter thread than the Swiss one.

Ron Wood · 02-18-2015, 01:25 PM

There is a difference in barrel thread length due to "long frame" and "short frame" configuration. All Swiss guns are of the "long frame" variety. After 1906 most non-Swiss Lugers were "short frame"

02-10-2015, 08:58 PM	#1
PEB Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Michigan Posts: 78 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Question on Swiss? Hi All I have been offered this Swiss model and was wondering if the experts could chime in as far as value and desirability. This would be my 1st Swiss Luger and am still learning as far as these go. Any help is greatly appreciated! Paul Attached Thumbnails

02-10-2015, 09:01 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	The one you picture was made by DWM in Berlin for the Swiss. Some of these were shipped in the white and final finished by the Swiss. The one you're looking at has the Swiss cross in Sunburst, and is an earlier variation than mine... In general the Swiss made guns and the German made ones for the Swiss embody the definition of high precision. They are my favorite Lugers. They have higher valuation. This picture shows the major variations... DWM M1900, DWM M1900/06, W+F M1900/06 Waffenfabrik Bern, and W+F 06/29 Waffenfabrik Bern. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-11-2015, 04:33 AM	#3
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I think Marc has already given you all the basic information about your gun. Swiss Lugers are among my favourite. In my opinion to get a deeper informations some closer and more detailed pictures of your Luger would help. Your gun is a so called "New Model" a "commercial" one made presumably between 1906 - 1914 Basically is like a Swiss Army 1900/06 with the exception of the barrel chamber junction with a German kind of thread and the wooden magazine bottom wihout any metallic insert. On the underside of the barel you should be able to see the German proofmarks the BUG or the crowned capital "N" with the figure 172,28 which means the caliber explained in the old English system (number of lead bullets in that diameter that at the time they could make with a pound of lead) It's quite a nice gun, but as I said detailed pictures would help to give a better opinion about blueing and markings on your Parabellum. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

02-11-2015, 11:08 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Per Ben's post, this could be a standard (non-Swiss) DWM M1900/06 that had the Swiss cross over starburst added later. None of the Swiss Lugers photographed in Bobba or Datig have a serial number there. In that position there should be an acceptance punch, a small cross. Also the number on the rear of the rear toggle should be the three last digits of the serial number, not just two. (Corrected below... should be two digits...). The cross in sunburst would be correct for this serial number. Datig and Bobba say it changed to the shield at about number 10,000. If correct, Datig says that this was from the 1908 shipment to the Swiss. Take a good sharp closeup of the cross in starburst. That might help with further identification. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-18-2015, 01:25 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	There is a difference in barrel thread length due to "long frame" and "short frame" configuration. All Swiss guns are of the "long frame" variety. After 1906 most non-Swiss Lugers were "short frame" __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-11-2015, 04:59 PM	#4
Stucki User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 84 Thanks: 1 Thanked 130 Times in 34 Posts	also a Swiss barrel without Geman proofmarks is possible - some Swiss commercial Lugers 1906 were delivered from Germany without barrels Alexander

02-11-2015, 06:30 PM	#5
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	may be a 1920 luger. i think the serial numbers on the left side is not for military.

02-11-2015, 08:02 PM	#6
PEB Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Michigan Posts: 78 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks for the feedback guys!!! Does anyone have an idea on value?

02-12-2015, 04:34 PM	#8
Stucki User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 84 Thanks: 1 Thanked 130 Times in 34 Posts	This is a typical Swiss Commercial 1906, delivered after WW I. The SN on this place is correct for this variation. 2 digits on the rear toogle is ok as well - only DWM Lugers 1906 assembled by W+F Bern have 3 digits. Alexander