GDR 'Vopo' new production lugers reunited!

[Vlim]

With the help of the forum, this relatively young section on postwar lugers and the attention it generated it was possible to reunite a pair of extremely rare P.08 pistols. As far as we know now, a small run of P.08 pistols was produced in Eastern-Germany, mainly as a study to see if series production was possible. This never happened and these pistols remained, unissued, in GDR arsenals until about 1988 when they were exported to Western-Germany for hard currency. The pistols were reproofed at the Cologne proof house in 1988, so we know that they were in the west at that time.

An example of these pistols was shown in our book 'The Parabellum is Back! 1999-2000', but due to the rarity we only were able to work from archive footage, coming from the archives of Joachim Görtz. In the mean time the location of the other pair (54 and 55) has been verified as well.

I was able to purchase my #72 a few years ago and it was quite a suprise when a fellow forum member explained he had bought #71. When he was ready to sell it, I bought it and a long flow of paperwork started. Now, some 8 months later, the pistols are finally reunited and here is a little photo presentation of the pair together.

[Zorba]

Topside/toggle pix?

[Vlim]

Worth mentioning is that the pistols are prepped to accept a 1930s police sear safety. The sideplate has the cutout on top, the sear is drilled and the receiver as well.

I suspect that a former police P08 was used as a pattern, so the old police modifications were copied into the new design, without the sear safety device.

[Edward Tinker]

very cool - very fascinating!

Ed

[Zorba]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

very cool - very fascinating!

Ed

Yea! The smooth topside with no stampings at all, definitely different!

[G.T.]

Also, look at the takedown levers, a very cool teardrop profile??... I wonder how many other parts are modified or simplified in the manufacture..... til..lat'r..GT........also... lack on knurling on toggle knobs?........ anyone see anything else....??

[mahd776]

Really interesting and neat to see. I am finding anything Luger interesting these days. Love the info here!

[alvin]

Which factory made them? Were them made by the same factory that made Simson?

[Vlim]

The manufacturer's code is '1001', which is the manufacturer's code for the VEB Ernst Thälmann Werke in Suhl.

Thälmann (named after the former leader of the German communist party) was a conglomeration of metal and arms manufacturing companies around Suhl and Zella-Mehlis and included companies like Simson, Merkel, Haenel (hence 2/1001 on the magazines) and Krieghoff.

Also note the 'Pistole 1001', the Walther PP made under the Thälmann name, for example.

During a restructuring in 1953, Thälmann was subdivided into 5 divisions. Division #2 was Haenel, which could explain the 2/1001 on the magazines (division 2 / company 1001).

The parts are very roughly finished, machine/tool markings are very obvious. The lanyard loop and the stock lug were dropped and several small parts like the side plate and trigger were made from castings.

A nice detail: the firing pins are fluted, but they have 3 flutes arranged as follows: bottom, top, left. The right side of the fin has no flute.

[alanint]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Also, look at the takedown levers, a very cool teardrop profile??... I wonder how many other parts are modified or simplified in the manufacture..... til..lat'r..GT........also... lack on knurling on toggle knobs?........ anyone see anything else....??

G.T., those takedown levers are typical of East German reworks. They appear on many of their reworked pistols.

[K.Wilhelm]

Amazing! Bill

[Lugerdoc]

Vlim, your DDR lugers are undoubtedly made from new E.German parts, but it bothers me that they don't have the N prefix stamped on the frame & receiver, as shown in Buxton Vol 3 and the ones that I've seen here in the UsA. Mine also has the C/N proofing under the barrel and on top of the center & rear toggle links. Could it be that someone in the DDR is still assembling these from left over parts? Comments? TH

[Vlim]

Hi Tom,

The West-German proof shows that these were imported in 1988, so any assembly must have been done before that time. Also, when you look at the history of the rearmament in East-Germany, there were 2 important years:

1953, the year when companies were being disowned and workers lost about 10% of their wages, hence a lot of turmoil and internal unrest and a need to provide armed protection against their own people.

1961, the year that the iron curtain was established.

References show that the P08 was still in service around 1966, being phased out as a first echelon weapon and going to the worker's battle groups ( a sort of home guard / national guard). It seems that supply was plentiful, so no need to produce any additional P08 pistols.

The GDR has been selling off their P08 pistols since the 1970s, many came to the US through Interarms.

I think they were scraping the bottom of the P08 barrel in 1988, just before the end of the GDR, and found some unissued stuff in the corners of some arsenals. This small batch of pistols dripped onto the West-German / European market and hadn't made it to the US (yet).

I believe that the N-prefix pistols were pressed into GDR service and marked accordingly, using the frame serial number of the pistols they replaced and that these pistols came to the US mixed with other VoPo service pistols. It is interesting to see that most of the N-marked pistols have the crown/U inspection / repair marking, showing that they went through additional proof house testing.

The first reference I found on these pistols was in a letter to Görtz in 1998. That was the report on #54 and #55.

[Dwight Gruber]

Gerben,

Just for the sake of clarity, recall that the pre-production test run was serial-numbered in the N1001-N1100 range. The normally-numbered pistols were an actual production run, and a much rarer and special variation. Massive congratulations.

--Dwight

[texkaw]

Very nice Vopo Lugers, OP!

I just acquired a Vopo 1920 DWM that is a very nice pistol. It has the Vopo grips, and has been nicely refinished (presumably by the DDR) but it doesn't appear to have the sunburst rollmark. Is this unusual?

It is an "N" prefix pistol.

[hayhugh]

I have seen a Luger with those grips someplace in the last day or so. Maybe the RIA auction, can't remember where...

[alanint]

They are typical "VoPo" "bullseye" grips, which were added to many post war rebuilds. The grips are not rare. The pistols are.

[hayhugh]

That's what I am trying to say, I saw one just like that for sale in the last couple of days. Not sure which auction, but I remember the grips. The luger was for sale not just the grips.

[alanint]

It was more than likely a common Russian Capture or VoPo pistol. They were issued with these grips when the wooden ones were unserviceable.

The nicer ones are starting to become collectible.

[Schupo]

Congratulations on two very nice, and interesting, Volkspolizei P.08 consecutive serial number pistols Vlim. The lack of the "N" prefix is unexpected but is clearly correct in some manner since there are two of them. And, the fact that you cite the lower serial numbers described in the letter to Gortz. Do you think they might have been assembled from existing new parts (in this particular serial number range) while scraping the barrel? This seems a viable theory.