Markings on my "new" Swiss

SmithSwede · 04-20-2016, 12:35 AM

Ok, I've finally joined the club. Acquired an 06/29 Swiss Luger, with the red plastic grips and red magazine button. Serial is 5039x.

Can somebody help me identify the various markings I see? Tell me where to look for other markings? Any comments, tips, or suggestions welcome.

Here we go:

---magazine seems nickel plated. No serial number. Red plastic button. Full of a thick grease. On rear of magazine near the red plastic base, there is a stylized capital "P". Does that refer to some inspector?

---Frame of gun.

Interior of frame. The "well" next to take down lever has a capital "S". Beneath that is "9.33". I'm assuming 9.33 means made in Sept 1933. Not sure about the "S."

Rear of frame. Behind spring hook. Looks like a capital "N" overlaid with a rifle symbol? Or a harpoon? Not sure.

eft side of frame. Extreme rear of frame, behind safety, seems to have two vertical pinprick marks. Does that indicate re-finishing or arsenal work?

--left side of trigger. A cross in front of pivot pin

--forward of takedown lever is serial number. Preceding the number looks like a rectangle, with a capital "M" inside, and some other mark above.

---right side of frame. Extreme rear toggle area. 4 vertical pinprick marks. Arsenal work?

--in front of trigger on frame above trigger guard is a large capital "P.".

Barrel. Seems a reddish "plum" color. Noticeably different bluing from rest of pistol. Replacement barrel? Normal?

Serial number on rear of barrel next to receiver matches. Seems like a "BP" mark directly vertical on barrel next to receiver, except the "B" is backwards.

Bottom of barrel next to receiver. Small cross.

Receiver lug. Last 3 digits of serial number.

Underneath of receiver, left side, rear. The same weird capital "N" overlaid with rifle/harpoon/something.

Underneath of receiver, right side, rear. Looks like capital letter "CG". Name of inspector?

---Toggle. Matching serial number toward rear. Swiss cross in middle. "Geladen" on left side of extractor.

In left side rail of bolt assembly there is a Swiss cross and again the capital letters "CG."

The toggle spring "hook" is silver colored, with Swiss cross and again the "CG."

Underneath rear portion of toggle assembly on left side is Swiss cross, on right side is "CG."

More generally:

All the witness marks on barrel to receiver and front sight to barrel seem dead perfect.

On the other hand, I'd say the gun was refinished, albeit very well. Arsenal work?

The side plate/trigger lever is has wear underneath the bluing. But it's also matching last 3 digits of serial number, with an "FP" above a Swiss cross on the body. The trigger lever itself is silver, again with Swiss cross and "CG."

Sergio Natali · 04-20-2016, 04:58 AM

Scott

First off welcome to this Luger Forum.

I see you asked a lot of questions, but before we start answering them I would advise you to read the so called FAQ first, where I'm sure you'll already find most of the answers.
Moreover since a picture is better than a thousand words, I'm sure some close up photos will be useful.

Best regards.

alanint · 04-20-2016, 07:38 AM

And photos are much better than even the most detailed description.

mrerick · 04-20-2016, 11:26 AM

Hi Scott, and welcome to the forum.

With a 1933 date, you have a 06/29 W+F Swiss Luger.

From this period, these typically have red canvesite grips, which are remarkable breakable. Be very careful handling it.

The P is the privatization mark struck when it was sold to the officer that carried it upon retirement.

While it was typical for the Swiss arsenal to refinish and rework their Lugers, many of these are in remarkably fine original condition. I have two from 1935 and 1938 that have almost perfect original very dark salt blued and slightly plum finish.

I think that in this period they had some metallurgy and bluing finish issues that lead to the plum color. This is present on my pistols, and also on a replacement barrel on a M1900 that was probably reworked in this period.

The "N" mark is Sig Neunhausen's mark. They made many of the component parts of these Lugers.

The CG relates to the alloy of metal the part is made from.

The BP mark is the firing proof mark.

These are the highest precision Lugers I know of, and I like them very much. Is your's visibly import marked. Most are. Sometimes (prior to 2000) they were import marked under the grips.

Marc

DTR04 · 04-20-2016, 03:01 PM

Sounds like a nice pistol. You have one of the earliest 06/29's as production started in 1933 with serial number 50001.

SmithSwede · 04-21-2016, 07:37 AM

Thanks for info. Very interesting.

I don't see any import marks anywhere. Not sure what that means.

I've ordered Datig's book on the Swiss variation Lugers. Any other recommended resource?

mrerick · 04-21-2016, 10:07 AM

Look for Bobba's book on "The Swiss Parabellum". It's in English and Italian, and a very good reference.

Marc

Sergio Natali · 04-21-2016, 11:15 AM

... and... I hate to insist but so far we've not seen a single picture of that Luger...

SmithSwede · 04-21-2016, 11:03 PM

Sorry about lack of photos. I'm not tech savvy. Trying to figure out how to do the picture thing. But keep blowing the vacuum tubes in my computer

ithacaartist · 04-22-2016, 01:11 AM

At the risk of going off-topic... Since there's help available right here for anybody that needs it, the days of getting off the hook by means of this old canard may be numbered. If anyone has a problem taking pics--equipment, set-up, whatever--the off topic section is available to ask for help. Problems getting the pics from your phone or camera to the computer? Plenty of us know how and can walk you through it, no problem, easy peasy. I am still of the opinion that unless your cell phone has a rotary dial, it is capable of decent pics!

Sergio Natali · 04-22-2016, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

At the risk of going off-topic... Since there's help available right here for anybody that needs it, the days of getting off the hook by means of this old canard may be numbered. If anyone has a problem taking pics--equipment, set-up, whatever--the off topic section is available to ask for help. Problems getting the pics from your phone or camera to the computer? Plenty of us know how and can walk you through it, no problem, easy peasy. I am still of the opinion that unless your cell phone has a rotary dial, it is capable of decent pics!

Quite amusing!!

Vlim · 04-22-2016, 02:49 PM

The P on the magazine is for Paillard. The magazine manufacturer. Most other markings identify subcontractors and materials. The rifle N stands for SIG in Neunhausen.

We published a full list of Swiss suppliers in our book 'The Parabellum Is Back'.

04-20-2016, 12:35 AM	#1
SmithSwede User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 1 Post	Markings on my "new" Swiss Ok, I've finally joined the club. Acquired an 06/29 Swiss Luger, with the red plastic grips and red magazine button. Serial is 5039x. Can somebody help me identify the various markings I see? Tell me where to look for other markings? Any comments, tips, or suggestions welcome. Here we go: ---magazine seems nickel plated. No serial number. Red plastic button. Full of a thick grease. On rear of magazine near the red plastic base, there is a stylized capital "P". Does that refer to some inspector? ---Frame of gun. Interior of frame. The "well" next to take down lever has a capital "S". Beneath that is "9.33". I'm assuming 9.33 means made in Sept 1933. Not sure about the "S." Rear of frame. Behind spring hook. Looks like a capital "N" overlaid with a rifle symbol? Or a harpoon? Not sure. eft side of frame. Extreme rear of frame, behind safety, seems to have two vertical pinprick marks. Does that indicate re-finishing or arsenal work? --left side of trigger. A cross in front of pivot pin --forward of takedown lever is serial number. Preceding the number looks like a rectangle, with a capital "M" inside, and some other mark above. ---right side of frame. Extreme rear toggle area. 4 vertical pinprick marks. Arsenal work? --in front of trigger on frame above trigger guard is a large capital "P.". Barrel. Seems a reddish "plum" color. Noticeably different bluing from rest of pistol. Replacement barrel? Normal? Serial number on rear of barrel next to receiver matches. Seems like a "BP" mark directly vertical on barrel next to receiver, except the "B" is backwards. Bottom of barrel next to receiver. Small cross. Receiver lug. Last 3 digits of serial number. Underneath of receiver, left side, rear. The same weird capital "N" overlaid with rifle/harpoon/something. Underneath of receiver, right side, rear. Looks like capital letter "CG". Name of inspector? ---Toggle. Matching serial number toward rear. Swiss cross in middle. "Geladen" on left side of extractor. In left side rail of bolt assembly there is a Swiss cross and again the capital letters "CG." The toggle spring "hook" is silver colored, with Swiss cross and again the "CG." Underneath rear portion of toggle assembly on left side is Swiss cross, on right side is "CG." More generally: All the witness marks on barrel to receiver and front sight to barrel seem dead perfect. On the other hand, I'd say the gun was refinished, albeit very well. Arsenal work? The side plate/trigger lever is has wear underneath the bluing. But it's also matching last 3 digits of serial number, with an "FP" above a Swiss cross on the body. The trigger lever itself is silver, again with Swiss cross and "CG."

04-20-2016, 04:58 AM	#2
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Scott First off welcome to this Luger Forum. I see you asked a lot of questions, but before we start answering them I would advise you to read the so called FAQ first, where I'm sure you'll already find most of the answers. Moreover since a picture is better than a thousand words, I'm sure some close up photos will be useful. Best regards. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

04-20-2016, 11:26 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Hi Scott, and welcome to the forum. With a 1933 date, you have a 06/29 W+F Swiss Luger. From this period, these typically have red canvesite grips, which are remarkable breakable. Be very careful handling it. The P is the privatization mark struck when it was sold to the officer that carried it upon retirement. While it was typical for the Swiss arsenal to refinish and rework their Lugers, many of these are in remarkably fine original condition. I have two from 1935 and 1938 that have almost perfect original very dark salt blued and slightly plum finish. I think that in this period they had some metallurgy and bluing finish issues that lead to the plum color. This is present on my pistols, and also on a replacement barrel on a M1900 that was probably reworked in this period. The "N" mark is Sig Neunhausen's mark. They made many of the component parts of these Lugers. The CG relates to the alloy of metal the part is made from. The BP mark is the firing proof mark. These are the highest precision Lugers I know of, and I like them very much. Is your's visibly import marked. Most are. Sometimes (prior to 2000) they were import marked under the grips. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-21-2016, 10:07 AM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Look for Bobba's book on "The Swiss Parabellum". It's in English and Italian, and a very good reference. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-21-2016, 11:15 AM	#8
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	... and... I hate to insist but so far we've not seen a single picture of that Luger... Attached Images __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

04-20-2016, 07:38 AM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	And photos are much better than even the most detailed description.

04-20-2016, 03:01 PM	#5
DTR04 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 52 Thanks: 92 Thanked 36 Times in 18 Posts	Sounds like a nice pistol. You have one of the earliest 06/29's as production started in 1933 with serial number 50001.

04-21-2016, 07:37 AM	#6
SmithSwede User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 1 Post	Thanks for info. Very interesting. I don't see any import marks anywhere. Not sure what that means. I've ordered Datig's book on the Swiss variation Lugers. Any other recommended resource?

04-21-2016, 11:03 PM	#9
SmithSwede User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 1 Post	Sorry about lack of photos. I'm not tech savvy. Trying to figure out how to do the picture thing. But keep blowing the vacuum tubes in my computer

04-22-2016, 01:11 AM	#10
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	At the risk of going off-topic... Since there's help available right here for anybody that needs it, the days of getting off the hook by means of this old canard may be numbered. If anyone has a problem taking pics--equipment, set-up, whatever--the off topic section is available to ask for help. Problems getting the pics from your phone or camera to the computer? Plenty of us know how and can walk you through it, no problem, easy peasy. I am still of the opinion that unless your cell phone has a rotary dial, it is capable of decent pics! Attached Thumbnails __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

04-22-2016, 02:49 PM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	The P on the magazine is for Paillard. The magazine manufacturer. Most other markings identify subcontractors and materials. The rifle N stands for SIG in Neunhausen. We published a full list of Swiss suppliers in our book 'The Parabellum Is Back'.