Otto Sindel holster - Page 4

corby34 · 05-01-2016, 02:59 PM

Here is another (2nd) 1941indel holster on ebay right now with the same thread showing...I don't know but are all of theses fake too? I just playing devils advocate here and yes I hope my holster is real...I think I've proven that this tell tale sign is false...

corby34 · 05-01-2016, 03:05 PM

Please Tell me what's not right?

John

wlyon · 05-01-2016, 03:45 PM

Look at my post here on 4/28. It shows a real Otto Sindel holster with hidden threads. There have been many fake holsters with Otto Sindel markings. Unfortunately they are getting better but not there yet. Jerry is our expert and rightfully so. When he says fake I for one would not buy it. He has seen many hundreds inside and out. It is always difficult when we buy a questionable item. The beauty of this Forum is helping us to buy correct real items. Collectively the amount of knowledge is amazing. We can follow it or ignore it, our choice. I choose to listen. Bill

lugerholsterrepair · 05-01-2016, 04:09 PM

John, I am not comfortable with any of the examples you show for a handful of reasons. Take a look at the closure stud, underneath where it is supposed to be mushroomed onto the washer. On both the Legacy holster and the eBay they are very poorly done. A good portion of the metal shaft can be seen, badly affixed. Hardly the quality one would expect to see from one of the premier leather goods manufacturers. This peening of studs was done by hand in WW1 but by 1941 more and more of it was done by a press. No matter..it's only one of many things wrong. Look at the bottom stitching of the belt loops. On early commercial holsters you frequently see 5 stitching holes. On later Military types it is sometimes 5 at the top of the loop and 4 on the bottom. No matter what you might encounter..it is NEVER just 3 as seen here. I can't tell you the number of belt loops I have stitched on..thousands I guess in the last twenty years but NEVER have I seen them like this. The German Saddler was not infallible..I have seen many irregularities due to God knows what but they were mostly regular and methodical. They had been working leather for Centuries. Thousands of items..everything was made of leather. To see a holster with one irregularity..OK. To see one where ever you look? Something is amiss. Whoever is making these well made fakes is good I grant them that. They may eventually get it right but as of now..their work is only a B+ and can fool some of the people most of the time but cannot fool all of us. Yet. John, Get your money back while you still can. I say that as a fellow collector. There ARE mint 1941 Otto Sindel holsters out there and if you ever come across one and compare this fake to it you will be amazed at the very visable difference. I don't get paid for these opinions so take them for what they are worth but if I did, I already have invested way more into this fake than I want to. They are making them for $$ and that's why you see them popping up now..If I had a REAL 1941 Otto Sindel holster that was mint I would expect it to bring $800+ NOT $550. Heck, just a pretty decent holster is $550 these days. But it's your money..
I know it's hard to convince a true believer..and you WANT to believe. Good Luck!

corby34 · 05-01-2016, 04:32 PM

Thank you Jerry for all your time. Also a pleasure speaking with. Also thanks to Bill
John

corby34 · 05-01-2016, 04:33 PM

By the way nothing glows under a black light...

John

foxdoublegunner · 05-01-2016, 05:11 PM

John,
A couple of years ago I was rescued from the "edge of an expensive cliff" by members of this forum as I was about to purchase an honest but well worn and slightly damaged Luger for an exhorbitant price. They didn't tell me what I wanted to hear- instead, they told me what I needed to hear. I took a breath, stepped back from the impending purchase, did some more homework then located exactly the type of Luger example that I was looking for. It has been the prize of my small collection ever since. If there is any question of authenticity or condition, you will always have a doubt in your mind and a prospective seller or another collector will be wary. Articles should stand on their own merit. At the end of the day, it is your money. Nobody else stands to lose.

Ricardo

DonVoigt · 05-01-2016, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corby34

By the way nothing glows under a black light...

John

John,
holsters are a minefield. I know they have blown up on me.

Now if there is any doubt, I pass; there are too many holsters, there will be a better and cheaper one next week, it is not like there is only one.

As to black light, that used to be a sure tell; but was one of the easiest and first things fixed by the repro makers.

JMHO.

lugerholsterrepair · 05-01-2016, 06:36 PM

I suggested a black light to John just to cover all the bases. It's always a good tool to know about and use on any number of things. As Don says..it is in no way diffinitive. Only another test. A lot of fakes I have seen are made with cotton thread and 100% cotton will not glow as it's a plant fiber like linen. But cotton was never used on leather holsters..
I gotta agree with Don, send that thing back and put the $550 in a war chest for the mint original that DOES appear someday. When it does..$550 will be the starting, not ending bid.

corby34 · 05-01-2016, 06:47 PM

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the good advice and comments. I plan on packing it up and shipping it back tomorrow...

Thanks for all the help and for saving me some bucks

John

DonVoigt · 05-01-2016, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corby34

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the good advice and comments. I plan on packing it up and shipping it back tomorrow...

Thanks for all the help and for saving me some bucks

John

I believe you made a good decision; had you kept it, you would always have some "doubt". JMHO.

lugerholsterrepair · 05-01-2016, 07:50 PM

you would always have some "doubt". I wouldn't!

wlyon · 05-01-2016, 08:00 PM

Nor I !!!!! Bill

wlyon · 05-01-2016, 08:19 PM

Three or four years ago I ordered a Dutch KNIL Holster from ebay. It was listed as a reproduction. I have a real one and was interested in what a repro looked like. These are a very complicated holster with several layers of leather. The repro was made in India at the request of the seller. They are still listed on ebay, luger holsters. Amazing repro, well made with attention to detail. The holsters we have been discussing are very well made. They will get better as the market increases. It is going to get tougher. Presenting them on this forum with clear pictures could save much grief and funds. I especially want to thank my buddy Jerry. He takes a good deal of time from his busy work to answer our questions. He is a working man and advice does not pay well. Never heard him complain and I have probably bugged him as much as anyone. Anyway Jerry know that it is appreciated!!!!!. Bill

corby34 · 05-02-2016, 12:37 PM

I shipped it back this morning guys. I again want to thank you all for your help. I am sure I will talk with you guys again cause I like collection Police luger and P38 holsters. Keep me in mind if any of you are selling police holster

Good day all,

John

mahd776 · 05-02-2016, 03:56 PM

Excellent reading. I am on the lookout for a 1936 holster and learned a lot from this! Thanks to all!

Mike

05-01-2016, 02:59 PM	#61
corby34 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 8 Posts	Here is another (2nd) 1941indel holster on ebay right now with the same thread showing...I don't know but are all of theses fake too? I just playing devils advocate here and yes I hope my holster is real...I think I've proven that this tell tale sign is false... Attached Thumbnails

05-01-2016, 03:45 PM	#63
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Look at my post here on 4/28. It shows a real Otto Sindel holster with hidden threads. There have been many fake holsters with Otto Sindel markings. Unfortunately they are getting better but not there yet. Jerry is our expert and rightfully so. When he says fake I for one would not buy it. He has seen many hundreds inside and out. It is always difficult when we buy a questionable item. The beauty of this Forum is helping us to buy correct real items. Collectively the amount of knowledge is amazing. We can follow it or ignore it, our choice. I choose to listen. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

05-01-2016, 04:09 PM	#64
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	John, I am not comfortable with any of the examples you show for a handful of reasons. Take a look at the closure stud, underneath where it is supposed to be mushroomed onto the washer. On both the Legacy holster and the eBay they are very poorly done. A good portion of the metal shaft can be seen, badly affixed. Hardly the quality one would expect to see from one of the premier leather goods manufacturers. This peening of studs was done by hand in WW1 but by 1941 more and more of it was done by a press. No matter..it's only one of many things wrong. Look at the bottom stitching of the belt loops. On early commercial holsters you frequently see 5 stitching holes. On later Military types it is sometimes 5 at the top of the loop and 4 on the bottom. No matter what you might encounter..it is NEVER just 3 as seen here. I can't tell you the number of belt loops I have stitched on..thousands I guess in the last twenty years but NEVER have I seen them like this. The German Saddler was not infallible..I have seen many irregularities due to God knows what but they were mostly regular and methodical. They had been working leather for Centuries. Thousands of items..everything was made of leather. To see a holster with one irregularity..OK. To see one where ever you look? Something is amiss. Whoever is making these well made fakes is good I grant them that. They may eventually get it right but as of now..their work is only a B+ and can fool some of the people most of the time but cannot fool all of us. Yet. John, Get your money back while you still can. I say that as a fellow collector. There ARE mint 1941 Otto Sindel holsters out there and if you ever come across one and compare this fake to it you will be amazed at the very visable difference. I don't get paid for these opinions so take them for what they are worth but if I did, I already have invested way more into this fake than I want to. They are making them for $$ and that's why you see them popping up now..If I had a REAL 1941 Otto Sindel holster that was mint I would expect it to bring $800+ NOT $550. Heck, just a pretty decent holster is $550 these days. But it's your money.. I know it's hard to convince a true believer..and you WANT to believe. Good Luck! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-01-2016, 06:36 PM	#69
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I suggested a black light to John just to cover all the bases. It's always a good tool to know about and use on any number of things. As Don says..it is in no way diffinitive. Only another test. A lot of fakes I have seen are made with cotton thread and 100% cotton will not glow as it's a plant fiber like linen. But cotton was never used on leather holsters.. I gotta agree with Don, send that thing back and put the $550 in a war chest for the mint original that DOES appear someday. When it does..$550 will be the starting, not ending bid. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-01-2016, 07:50 PM	#72
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	you would always have some "doubt". I wouldn't! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-01-2016, 03:05 PM	#62
corby34 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 8 Posts	Please Tell me what's not right? John

05-01-2016, 04:32 PM	#65
corby34 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 8 Posts	Thank you Jerry for all your time. Also a pleasure speaking with. Also thanks to Bill John

05-01-2016, 04:33 PM	#66
corby34 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 8 Posts	By the way nothing glows under a black light... John

05-01-2016, 05:11 PM	#67
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	John, A couple of years ago I was rescued from the "edge of an expensive cliff" by members of this forum as I was about to purchase an honest but well worn and slightly damaged Luger for an exhorbitant price. They didn't tell me what I wanted to hear- instead, they told me what I needed to hear. I took a breath, stepped back from the impending purchase, did some more homework then located exactly the type of Luger example that I was looking for. It has been the prize of my small collection ever since. If there is any question of authenticity or condition, you will always have a doubt in your mind and a prospective seller or another collector will be wary. Articles should stand on their own merit. At the end of the day, it is your money. Nobody else stands to lose. Ricardo

05-01-2016, 06:47 PM	#70
corby34 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 8 Posts	Thanks guys I really appreciate all the good advice and comments. I plan on packing it up and shipping it back tomorrow... Thanks for all the help and for saving me some bucks John

05-01-2016, 08:00 PM	#73
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Nor I !!!!! Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

05-01-2016, 08:19 PM	#74
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Three or four years ago I ordered a Dutch KNIL Holster from ebay. It was listed as a reproduction. I have a real one and was interested in what a repro looked like. These are a very complicated holster with several layers of leather. The repro was made in India at the request of the seller. They are still listed on ebay, luger holsters. Amazing repro, well made with attention to detail. The holsters we have been discussing are very well made. They will get better as the market increases. It is going to get tougher. Presenting them on this forum with clear pictures could save much grief and funds. I especially want to thank my buddy Jerry. He takes a good deal of time from his busy work to answer our questions. He is a working man and advice does not pay well. Never heard him complain and I have probably bugged him as much as anyone. Anyway Jerry know that it is appreciated!!!!!. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

05-02-2016, 12:37 PM	#75
corby34 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 8 Posts	I shipped it back this morning guys. I again want to thank you all for your help. I am sure I will talk with you guys again cause I like collection Police luger and P38 holsters. Keep me in mind if any of you are selling police holster Good day all, John

05-02-2016, 03:56 PM	#76
mahd776 User Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 29 Thanks: 2 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	Thaks Excellent reading. I am on the lookout for a 1936 holster and learned a lot from this! Thanks to all! Mike