Finnish Luger question

Dwight Gruber · 07-20-2002, 04:13 PM

At the last Portland gun show there were a couple of Finnish Lugers on one table. They had unusual stampings lengthwise on the barrels (which I didn't have the presence of mind to record), which didn't look like usual import markings. Both guns also had unusual front sights, pictured here (please forgive the crude drawing):

The sights were of the square post variety, and the rear sights were modified to match.

I am led to understand that Finnish Lugers were arsenal-rebarrelled in Finland. Were the markings possibly in reference to that? Is this style front sight legit to the rebarrel, or did someone add them later?

I'm curious because I passed on them (not knowing any better), and have wondered ever since if that was a mistake--the prices on them seemed decently low.

--Dwight

Hugh · 07-20-2002, 04:27 PM

Dwight,

The front sight is typical of Finnish Lugers. As for the barrel markings, mine has an importers stamp on the bottom, but no other marks. [img]confused.gif[/img]

Herb · 07-20-2002, 04:36 PM

Dwight, the sight you have drawn is that of the 1923 Dutch Luger as shown on page 242, Costanzo. The Finnish Luger sight should be flat on top, going straight back where you have the front angle going up to a point. However, in Kenyon's book, The Multi-National pistol, the pictures show a standard 1908 type sight (pg120) The Finnish Lugers are pretty rare, in Datig's book, The Luger Pistol, he surmises that they exist but he had never seen one.

Luke · 07-20-2002, 04:53 PM

Dwight, I looked at a Finnish Luger with a 5" barrel from a VERY reputable dealer some time back. This dealer was straightforward in telling me that it was mismatched.

I talked with several more experienced collectors who commented that the Finnish Lugers are normally mismatched. Nevertheless, it is an interesting piece.

Dwight Gruber · 07-20-2002, 07:27 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Herb:
<strong>The Finnish Luger sight should be flat on top, going straight back where you have the front angle going up to a point. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Herb, thank you for the reminder. You have brought back my mental picture of these guns, the sights were much closer to flat on top than angled as I drew it; I thought that was -very- weird at the time, and figured that it might have ben filed that way later.

Shoulda bought.

--Dwight

Hugh · 07-20-2002, 07:29 PM

My Finnish Luger has more mismatched parts than matched! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Doubs · 07-20-2002, 07:41 PM

Dwight, when DWM delivered the Finnish contract Lugers they were in 7.65mm, had 3 7/8 inch barrels and were marked in the commercial style but with a military suffix letter on the end of the serial number. The guns were normal Lugers. The Finns added unit disks to the left grip panel and stamped the "SA" in a box on the left receiver. The guns were made in the mid 1920's.

The Finns did rebarrel some in 9mm and some of those had longer barrels. I've seen six inch 9mm barrels but I believe there were also other lengths made. IIRC, the sights on the replacement barrels I saw were parallel-sided and not the barley-corn style used on normal Lugers. I don't recall, however, if they were pointed or flat.

Most of the Finn Lugers will be mismatched as they were refurbished over the years. If you go to "Owner's Corner" and look at the Finn Luger Kyrie has pictured, you'll see what the guns pretty much looked like as originally delivered.

The Finn Luger that Kyrie has pictured used to belong to me and I can tell you that it's quite accurate. Most of the major parts are matching. At some point, the front sight was filed down slightly and that can be seen if you look closely at the picture. There's also a small hole drilled in the breechblock from underneath into the firing pin cavity that I believe was done to improve cold weather reliability. The Finn Lugers were imported by Century sometime around late 1992 or early 1993. Until then, Finn Lugers were very rare in the US as Datig observed in his book.

Kyrie · 07-20-2002, 08:14 PM

Hi Doubs!

These Lugers do get around :-)

Entirely FWIW, CAI wasnÃ¢??t the only importer, nor were Lugers the only pistols coming out of Finland about that time. HereÃ¢??s another ad (I think from D&R Sports) from the same time frame.

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Finn_pistols.jpg

Warm regards,

Kyrie

Doubs · 07-20-2002, 08:29 PM

Hi Kyrie,

I guess I should have said that the Finn I had - and now you have - was imported by Century. The ones I've seen in 9mm did indeed have Tikka barels and looked quite nice. It's been some years since I looked at them (a NAPCA convention in Macon, GA) and I don't recall who the importer was for those pistols.

If you'd like a little more information on the Finn Luger you now have, contact me through private e-mail. I suppose you got it from the gentleman in VA to whom I sold it. It's a nice example of the Finn contract Luger and I'm sure you appreciate it.

07-20-2002, 04:13 PM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Finnish Luger question At the last Portland gun show there were a couple of Finnish Lugers on one table. They had unusual stampings lengthwise on the barrels (which I didn't have the presence of mind to record), which didn't look like usual import markings. Both guns also had unusual front sights, pictured here (please forgive the crude drawing): The sights were of the square post variety, and the rear sights were modified to match. I am led to understand that Finnish Lugers were arsenal-rebarrelled in Finland. Were the markings possibly in reference to that? Is this style front sight legit to the rebarrel, or did someone add them later? I'm curious because I passed on them (not knowing any better), and have wondered ever since if that was a mistake--the prices on them seemed decently low. --Dwight

07-20-2002, 04:27 PM	#2
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Dwight, The front sight is typical of Finnish Lugers. As for the barrel markings, mine has an importers stamp on the bottom, but no other marks. [img]confused.gif[/img] __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-20-2002, 04:36 PM	#3
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Dwight, the sight you have drawn is that of the 1923 Dutch Luger as shown on page 242, Costanzo. The Finnish Luger sight should be flat on top, going straight back where you have the front angle going up to a point. However, in Kenyon's book, The Multi-National pistol, the pictures show a standard 1908 type sight (pg120) The Finnish Lugers are pretty rare, in Datig's book, The Luger Pistol, he surmises that they exist but he had never seen one. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

07-20-2002, 04:53 PM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Dwight, I looked at a Finnish Luger with a 5" barrel from a VERY reputable dealer some time back. This dealer was straightforward in telling me that it was mismatched. I talked with several more experienced collectors who commented that the Finnish Lugers are normally mismatched. Nevertheless, it is an interesting piece. __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-20-2002, 07:29 PM	#6
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	My Finnish Luger has more mismatched parts than matched! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-20-2002, 07:27 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Herb: <strong>The Finnish Luger sight should be flat on top, going straight back where you have the front angle going up to a point. </strong><hr></blockquote> Herb, thank you for the reminder. You have brought back my mental picture of these guns, the sights were much closer to flat on top than angled as I drew it; I thought that was -very- weird at the time, and figured that it might have ben filed that way later. Shoulda bought. --Dwight

07-20-2002, 07:41 PM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	Dwight, when DWM delivered the Finnish contract Lugers they were in 7.65mm, had 3 7/8 inch barrels and were marked in the commercial style but with a military suffix letter on the end of the serial number. The guns were normal Lugers. The Finns added unit disks to the left grip panel and stamped the "SA" in a box on the left receiver. The guns were made in the mid 1920's. The Finns did rebarrel some in 9mm and some of those had longer barrels. I've seen six inch 9mm barrels but I believe there were also other lengths made. IIRC, the sights on the replacement barrels I saw were parallel-sided and not the barley-corn style used on normal Lugers. I don't recall, however, if they were pointed or flat. Most of the Finn Lugers will be mismatched as they were refurbished over the years. If you go to "Owner's Corner" and look at the Finn Luger Kyrie has pictured, you'll see what the guns pretty much looked like as originally delivered. The Finn Luger that Kyrie has pictured used to belong to me and I can tell you that it's quite accurate. Most of the major parts are matching. At some point, the front sight was filed down slightly and that can be seen if you look closely at the picture. There's also a small hole drilled in the breechblock from underneath into the firing pin cavity that I believe was done to improve cold weather reliability. The Finn Lugers were imported by Century sometime around late 1992 or early 1993. Until then, Finn Lugers were very rare in the US as Datig observed in his book.

07-20-2002, 08:14 PM	#8
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Hi Doubs! These Lugers do get around :-) Entirely FWIW, CAI wasnÃ¢??t the only importer, nor were Lugers the only pistols coming out of Finland about that time. HereÃ¢??s another ad (I think from D&R Sports) from the same time frame. http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Finn_pistols.jpg Warm regards, Kyrie

07-20-2002, 08:29 PM	#9
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	Hi Kyrie, I guess I should have said that the Finn I had - and now you have - was imported by Century. The ones I've seen in 9mm did indeed have Tikka barels and looked quite nice. It's been some years since I looked at them (a NAPCA convention in Macon, GA) and I don't recall who the importer was for those pistols. If you'd like a little more information on the Finn Luger you now have, contact me through private e-mail. I suppose you got it from the gentleman in VA to whom I sold it. It's a nice example of the Finn contract Luger and I'm sure you appreciate it.