Norm's Rareties, #5.

[Norme]

U-Boat ammo boxes are probably the ultimate accessory for Navy collectors, there are only 9 known survivors to date, two here in the US and seven overseas. They are made of sheet brass with a cast brass watertight lid and were designed to hold 50 16 round ammo boxes stacked on end, although the labeling was altered from 800 to 700 rounds for reasons that are unclear. This particular box is illustrated in "Borchardt & Luger" by Görtz/Sturgess, page 928, red edition.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Norm, Fantastic! Talk about rare...

[gunnertwo]

Ultimate accessory! Thanks for the "Bring & Brag".

G2

[wlyon]

Norm
Great!!! Could you put an object next to it or give us dimensions. Thanks Bill

[Norme]

Here you go, Bill.
Regards, Norm

[wlyon]

Thank you Norm. That helps. Bill

[Sky Zero]

very cool. how did you come across it?

[Norme]

Originally Posted by Sky Zero

very cool. how did you come across it?

Hi James,
These boxes were unknown until relatively recently. Jan Still never mentions them and although Sturgess describes them, the earlier Green edition shows no photos. Rumor has it that a few surfaced at the Toulon naval base and were acquired by a French dealer, mine is doubtless one of these.
Regards, Norm

[Sky Zero]

too cool, norm.

[KevinThorpe]

I'm not even going to ask "how much!"
but I'd love to have one.
Great piece, lucky man.

[m1903a3]

Originally Posted by KevinThorpe

I'm not even going to ask "how much!"
but I'd love to have one.
Great piece, lucky man.

Get in line.

[Diver6106]

I am very skeptical that these are ammo boxes for "small arms - pistols, rifles, submachine guns." Now it would be logical to have 'ready service ammo' in water-pressure tight boxes next to and for 50 caliber or larger fixed guns, so they can be brought into surface actions very quickly. But no U boat would surface to engage in action with small arms. And they would be brought out loaded with magazines for rapid action, and spare magazines in pouches. Is there an authoritative German source for this?

[m1903a3]

Originally Posted by Diver6106

I am very skeptical that these are ammo boxes for "small arms - pistols, rifles, submachine guns." Now it would be logical to have 'ready service ammo' in water-pressure tight boxes next to and for 50 caliber or larger fixed guns, so they can be brought into surface actions very quickly. But no U boat would surface to engage in action with small arms. And they would be brought out loaded with magazines for rapid action, and spare magazines in pouches. Is there an authoritative German source for this?

It is, I believe, a misnomer to call them "U-Boat" ammo boxes. The fact that they are Imperial Navy watertight boxes for the storage of 9mm ammunition (which meant P.04 Lugers in the Imperial Navy) cannot be reasonably disputed. There are several around, I personally know of at least seven that surfaced in France, Belgium and one in Norway. Most have the remnants of their original labels specifying how many rounds of ammo, and a couple of the labels have dates that tell us the boxes were still in use during WWII. So far I haven't scored one for myself, but I remain hopeful.

There is no suggestion they are ready ammo boxes. Any ready ammo for the lugers would be in magazines. It is my opinion that they are simply storage containers for additional ammo for use on U-Boats, Torpedo Boats and other vessels where the P.04 was the primary small arm and the environment was perpetually wet.

I think this is supported by the fact that the boxes seem to show up in areas that were primary U-Boat and/or Torpedo boats bases.

As for surfacing, in the early years of WWI that is exactly what the U-Boats did. The Germans scrupulously followed the international rules of cruiser warfare, surfacing and sending Luger armed boarding parties to search neutrals for contraband and/or enemy merchant ships for log and code books. After letting the crews abandon ship they would sink it with their deck gun. It wasn't until the Brits armed the merchant ships that the U-Boats started shooting first. Even then, it was preferable to use a gun rather than one of the precious few torpedoes the early boats carried.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Thanks Bill! These are much smaller than I had in my mind from previous photo's. Also there are what look like handles in each corner..but there looks be to little finger room? Are these carry handles or something else?

[Norme]

Hi Jerry,
The brazed on loops are for a canvas shoulder strap.
Regards, Norm

[Edward Tinker]

Norm, these are really fantastic items you are showing us! I am very pleased personally to see each one and groupings that you show us thank you so much!

[lugerholsterrepair]

Norm, Thanks! Logical to be sure.