From The Vickers Museum

[Yakman]

Does anyone remember an article written in the 1960s or very early 1970s about Martin B. Retting acquiring a number of guns from the Vickers museum, in the early 1960s, among which were three Vickers Ltd Lugers? I read the article but didn't own the firearms publication it was written in. Now I don't remember the publication or exactly when it was written.

The guns themselves supposedly never left England for the Netherlands and thus were never marked with the Crown W Wilhelmina Dutch "proof", having only British proofs. The guns were nicely rust blued, strawed parts, and had finely checkered walnut (I guess) grips. The safe and loaded markings were the same as the contract guns. As I remember, at least one had the unique Dutch mag, but I don't remember if it was numbered. My failing memory seems to recall that the article said the three guns were retained by Vickers Ltd possibly for some company executives.

At the time, it was generally thought by collectors that the contract was for about 6000 guns all of which having four digit serial numbers running through the 6000 range. Two of the Retting guns had four digit serial numbers, which I don't remember, but the third had a five digit number, 10193. This one I remember because I bought it from the original purchaser, from Retting. At the time I thought it questionable but let it pass because I believed the story of it's origin. Also, another anomaly, one of the four digit guns, the number being in the contract range, had a unique style Vickers Ltd toggle marking. I don't remember the details of it but, the owner told me that was what drew him to it rather than searching out a normal contract piece with the representative brass plate and course checkered grips.

At the time these were the only three guns of their type, with no other outside of the contract pieces known, so far as I remember. Not so today, I guess. However, I can find no information on these sans Dutch marked Vickers Lugers.

These three guns were sold by Retting to three well known Luger collectors, two of whom I know, as do many of you, and one I didn't know. Knowing of these guns and having read the article about them is what peaked my interest. The fellow with the uniquely styled toggle marking wasn't interested in selling. I had to beg a little for the one I got and consequently had to pay through the nose for it.

If anyone knows the article I'm talking about and can tell me what publication it is in I'd really appreciate it. I've exhausted about everything I can think of to search the web, but to no avail. Thanks.

Jack

[ken d]

Jack:

I have been the caretaker for Vickers SN 10193 since Dec, 2002. I was nor aware of
the Museum/Retting connection.

Ken D

[Ron Wood]

Vickers Lugers delivered to the Dutch serial numbering picked up sequentially after the last pre-1914 DWM Dutch contract. So the 6000 Vickers Lugers delivered to the Dutch run from serial number 4182 to 10181. Numbers above that range would not be part of the Dutch contract. In "The Dutch Luger" by Martens and de Vries, the existence of what they term "Commercial Vickers Lugers" is documented with two known examples #10182 and #10206. So they estimate that a possible range of serial numbers for this variation might be 10182 to 10210.
Ron

[cirelaw]

http://www.wilkinsonfscollection.com...Ltd_Luger.html ??

[Angus Magnus]

another article pulled from the web:

http://www.acant.org.au/Articles/MoreVickersLuger.html

[Angus Magnus]

I am considering selling a Vickers, but don't know where it should be priced. They do not seem to come up often and the condition is usually quite poor. A year or two ago there was a rusty one on gunbroker for about $3000, another member here got one for less with a hole in the frame, and then there was this one with provenance for $10,000:

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/3109-358/

Mine should probably be priced somewhere in the middle of those examples. I've never sold something that could be considered rare. Any tips on what would be the best selling venue?

[cirelaw]

One more~http://www.landofborchardt.com/1928dei_luger.html

[Angus Magnus]

Well, I listed mine for sale and added the links you provided in the description. Thanks Cirelaw!

[CAP Black]

I didn't get where it is listed? Not on forum???
Jack

[Angus Magnus]

Originally Posted by CAP Black

I didn't get where it is listed? Not on forum???
Jack

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=529144878

[DonVoigt]

Angus,
You do yourself a dis-service with those dark pictures. Almost no detail can be seen.
Better(lighter) pictures would surely help a sale. JMHO

[Yakman]

ken d, I've sent you a PM.

Jack