Swiss 06/29 Luger- 1940 Bern - best factory ammo?

RShaw · 07-16-2019, 02:57 PM

Hi All,

I have recently acquired a very nice 1940 Bern 06/29 Luger chambered in 7,65 mm which takes the bottleneck casing. Fiocchi continues to make this round, but I am hearing that this ammo is a bit too powerful for the 06/29, while others are of the opinion that it is fine.

I am planning to reload anyway, but I would like the opinions of you experts out there if you don't mind.

I understand that the 06/29 is a very well built firearm but I do not want to risk damage to this gun!

Many thanks!!

HerrKaiser · 07-16-2019, 03:29 PM

Unless the Swiss springs are notably weaker than their German counterparts, I’ve heard many say the opposite. Prvi Partisan is the more commonly recommended .30 ammo to shoot with as many complain Fiocchi is too weak to reliably cycle the action on their guns. It (Fiocchi) worked fine for my German-made commercial, but I also think it’s spring is weak/old and I only took it to the range once to make sure it works since it is all matching and I have no interest in shooting it any time in the near future.

Do post some pictures of it as well.

Doubs · 07-16-2019, 03:55 PM

If you reload, I STRONGLY suggest using an 86 ~ 90 grain bullet with a cannelure. The short neck of the 30 Luger case may not have sufficient neck tension to prevent the bullet being driven back deeper as it strikes the feed ramp. Thus crimping the case mouth into the cannelure is necessary.

I use .308" 86 grain soft point bullets and 90 grain Hornady .312" XTP HP bullets run through a .310" sizing die. Also, 90 grain Sierra HCSP .312" bullets also run through a .310" sizing die work well but are much more expensive than the XTP bullets.

A good starting load is any of the above bullets over 5.0 grains of Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder. I also chamfer the case mouth to prevent shaving the sides of the bullets.

I have an old take-off 30 caliber Luger barrel that I use to check every round to make sure they chamber properly.

RShaw · 07-16-2019, 04:33 PM

Wow!! Thanks very much for the details! This is the first time I have heard that the Fiocchi's are too weak. I do have a 1917 DWM P08 in which 9 mm subsonics have shot well. It takes about the same amount of tension to pull both toggles all the way back until the holdopen pops up and engages.

The serial number is the same on the base of the barrel, the frame and the upper of the Swiss 06/29. The firing pin is not numbered- but didn't the Swiss take care to ensure that their parts were more interchangable than did their German counterparts? Therefore a matching Swiss gun does not have as many numbered parts as the German P08?

Obviously there is a lot I do not know- but these guns are fascinating

Thanks for the feedback... Yes I will post some photos as soon as I can take some decent shots tomorrow.

rhuff · 07-16-2019, 04:44 PM

My 30 Luger handguns function fine with the Fiocchi factory IF I use the FMJ, and not the soft point ammo. I have been handloading this brass for many years, and have loaded a fair amount of the 85gr .308in. FMJ bullets, but am not pleased with the end results, as a whole.

I have had my best results with 92gr .311in. lead RN bullets, and 92gr .309in. FMJ bullets. I load them behind a full load of Unique Powder and apply a good crimp with a Lee factory crimp die. This combo works extremely well in all of my 7.65P caliber handguns.....not just my Lugers.

I have no idea what reloading components are available to you, so it is hard to recommend components that I have no history with.

RShaw · 07-17-2019, 07:21 AM

Hi All,

Then promised photos below- thanks rhuff for your comments on the FMJ versus soft point...

What difficulties did you have with the soft point?

We have a good LGS here which specializes in reloading- I'm sure I can get details from them. I'll bring all this info to them to be as close to it as possible with the powder, heads and primers available here.

Thanks!

rhuff · 07-17-2019, 02:23 PM

The Fiocchi soft point 30 Luger ammo has a tendency to stop, or nearly stop, on the feed ramp.....resulting in a missfeed/jam. The FMJ do not do this in MY Lugers. Some folks on this forum report that the soft point Fiocchi ammo functions just fine in their Lugers....

RShaw · 07-17-2019, 03:21 PM

Guess there's only one way to find out....
Thanks a lot!

Vlim · 07-17-2019, 03:21 PM

Shot quite a bit of hard lead Fiocchi through my other 06/29. Never had any issues. Even ran a full Bing 2nd type drum mag through it without a glitch.

My 6 inch Mauser Parabellum didn't like them, though.

Doubs · 07-17-2019, 05:49 PM

Here are my .30 Luger bullets and cartridges. On the far right is my 9mm bullet and cartridge.

L ~ R, .309" 90 grain Hornady HP, .312" 90 grain Sierra Jacketed Hollow Core resized to .310", .312" 85 grain Hornady XTP HP resized to .310", 93 grain custom mold cast bullet, 86 grain .308" soft nose and the last one is a 9mm 115 grain .356" Berry plated flat nose bullet.

Note that after being resized to .310", the Sierra JHC bullet nose is reshaped to pretty much a round nose but still has a hollow point. It was designed for the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge.

I ordered a custom mold to cast the 93 grain cast bullets. My design had a much larger meplat but the maker made it as you see it. I size them to .310" and they work great but I'd still like a bigger meplat.

All of the 30's are loaded with 5.0 grains of Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder and they all function just fine in my Lugers. However, in my Benelli B80 and Browning HP, they do not.

The 115 grain 9mm load is 5.6/5.7 grains of CFE Pistol powder and they work beautifully in my shooter Lugers.

Sieger · 07-18-2019, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

Here are my .30 Luger bullets and cartridges. On the far right is my 9mm bullet and cartridge.

L ~ R, .309" 90 grain Hornady HP, .312" 90 grain Sierra Jacketed Hollow Core resized to .310", .312" 85 grain Hornady XTP HP resized to .310", 93 grain custom mold cast bullet, 86 grain .308" soft nose and the last one is a 9mm 115 grain .356" Berry plated flat nose bullet.

Note that after being resized to .310", the Sierra JHC bullet nose is reshaped to pretty much a round nose but still has a hollow point. It was designed for the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge.

I ordered a custom mold to cast the 93 grain cast bullets. My design had a much larger meplat but the maker made it as you see it. I size them to .310" and they work great but I'd still like a bigger meplat.

All of the 30's are loaded with 5.0 grains of Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder and they all function just fine in my Lugers. However, in my Benelli B80 and Browning HP, they do not.

The 115 grain 9mm load is 5.6/5.7 grains of CFE Pistol powder and they work beautifully in my shooter Lugers.

Doubs,

Would you share with us please information on your custom mold maker?

Thanks!

Sieger

Doubs · 07-18-2019, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Doubs, Would you share with us please information on your custom mold maker? Thanks!

Sieger

My 4 gang mold came from LBT: http://lbtmolds.com/

My mold is number 313 95 TC

I've had my mold for some years so I have no idea what the cost would be today. I can say that the quality is first class and the mold drops a beautiful bullet.

RShaw · 07-19-2019, 05:55 PM

Well, I have the Fiocchi .30 cal FMJ on order which I can pick up Tuesday.
That gets me some more brass as well as experiece shooting this gun. Many thanks for all the reloading detals above!!

Last time I reloaded was 38 years ago- 45LC when living in the US, was great fun, but the details are lost to me and the technology and precision equipment available today is a big change from back then.....

07-16-2019, 02:57 PM	#1
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Swiss 06/29 Luger- 1940 Bern - best factory ammo? Hi All, I have recently acquired a very nice 1940 Bern 06/29 Luger chambered in 7,65 mm which takes the bottleneck casing. Fiocchi continues to make this round, but I am hearing that this ammo is a bit too powerful for the 06/29, while others are of the opinion that it is fine. I am planning to reload anyway, but I would like the opinions of you experts out there if you don't mind. I understand that the 06/29 is a very well built firearm but I do not want to risk damage to this gun! Many thanks!! __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

07-16-2019, 03:29 PM	#2
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	Unless the Swiss springs are notably weaker than their German counterparts, I’ve heard many say the opposite. Prvi Partisan is the more commonly recommended .30 ammo to shoot with as many complain Fiocchi is too weak to reliably cycle the action on their guns. It (Fiocchi) worked fine for my German-made commercial, but I also think it’s spring is weak/old and I only took it to the range once to make sure it works since it is all matching and I have no interest in shooting it any time in the near future. Do post some pictures of it as well. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

07-16-2019, 04:33 PM	#4
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Wow!! Thanks very much for the details! This is the first time I have heard that the Fiocchi's are too weak. I do have a 1917 DWM P08 in which 9 mm subsonics have shot well. It takes about the same amount of tension to pull both toggles all the way back until the holdopen pops up and engages. The serial number is the same on the base of the barrel, the frame and the upper of the Swiss 06/29. The firing pin is not numbered- but didn't the Swiss take care to ensure that their parts were more interchangable than did their German counterparts? Therefore a matching Swiss gun does not have as many numbered parts as the German P08? Obviously there is a lot I do not know- but these guns are fascinating Thanks for the feedback... Yes I will post some photos as soon as I can take some decent shots tomorrow. __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

07-16-2019, 04:44 PM	#5
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	My 30 Luger handguns function fine with the Fiocchi factory IF I use the FMJ, and not the soft point ammo. I have been handloading this brass for many years, and have loaded a fair amount of the 85gr .308in. FMJ bullets, but am not pleased with the end results, as a whole. I have had my best results with 92gr .311in. lead RN bullets, and 92gr .309in. FMJ bullets. I load them behind a full load of Unique Powder and apply a good crimp with a Lee factory crimp die. This combo works extremely well in all of my 7.65P caliber handguns.....not just my Lugers. I have no idea what reloading components are available to you, so it is hard to recommend components that I have no history with. __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

07-17-2019, 07:21 AM	#6
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Hi All, Then promised photos below- thanks rhuff for your comments on the FMJ versus soft point... What difficulties did you have with the soft point? We have a good LGS here which specializes in reloading- I'm sure I can get details from them. I'll bring all this info to them to be as close to it as possible with the powder, heads and primers available here. Thanks! Attached Thumbnails

07-16-2019, 03:55 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,687 Times in 554 Posts	If you reload, I STRONGLY suggest using an 86 ~ 90 grain bullet with a cannelure. The short neck of the 30 Luger case may not have sufficient neck tension to prevent the bullet being driven back deeper as it strikes the feed ramp. Thus crimping the case mouth into the cannelure is necessary. I use .308" 86 grain soft point bullets and 90 grain Hornady .312" XTP HP bullets run through a .310" sizing die. Also, 90 grain Sierra HCSP .312" bullets also run through a .310" sizing die work well but are much more expensive than the XTP bullets. A good starting load is any of the above bullets over 5.0 grains of Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder. I also chamfer the case mouth to prevent shaving the sides of the bullets. I have an old take-off 30 caliber Luger barrel that I use to check every round to make sure they chamber properly.

07-17-2019, 02:23 PM	#7
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	The Fiocchi soft point 30 Luger ammo has a tendency to stop, or nearly stop, on the feed ramp.....resulting in a missfeed/jam. The FMJ do not do this in MY Lugers. Some folks on this forum report that the soft point Fiocchi ammo functions just fine in their Lugers.... __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

07-17-2019, 03:21 PM	#8
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Guess there's only one way to find out.... Thanks a lot! __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

07-17-2019, 03:21 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Shot quite a bit of hard lead Fiocchi through my other 06/29. Never had any issues. Even ran a full Bing 2nd type drum mag through it without a glitch. My 6 inch Mauser Parabellum didn't like them, though.

07-17-2019, 05:49 PM	#10
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,687 Times in 554 Posts	Here are my .30 Luger bullets and cartridges. On the far right is my 9mm bullet and cartridge. L ~ R, .309" 90 grain Hornady HP, .312" 90 grain Sierra Jacketed Hollow Core resized to .310", .312" 85 grain Hornady XTP HP resized to .310", 93 grain custom mold cast bullet, 86 grain .308" soft nose and the last one is a 9mm 115 grain .356" Berry plated flat nose bullet. Note that after being resized to .310", the Sierra JHC bullet nose is reshaped to pretty much a round nose but still has a hollow point. It was designed for the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge. I ordered a custom mold to cast the 93 grain cast bullets. My design had a much larger meplat but the maker made it as you see it. I size them to .310" and they work great but I'd still like a bigger meplat. All of the 30's are loaded with 5.0 grains of Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder and they all function just fine in my Lugers. However, in my Benelli B80 and Browning HP, they do not. The 115 grain 9mm load is 5.6/5.7 grains of CFE Pistol powder and they work beautifully in my shooter Lugers.

07-19-2019, 05:55 PM	#13
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Well, I have the Fiocchi .30 cal FMJ on order which I can pick up Tuesday. That gets me some more brass as well as experiece shooting this gun. Many thanks for all the reloading detals above!! Last time I reloaded was 38 years ago- 45LC when living in the US, was great fun, but the details are lost to me and the technology and precision equipment available today is a big change from back then.....