Opinion on this 1933 Luger

[vesuvio]

I see online different opinions on these Lugers. How to tell if original or not? I have seen these with Erfurth and DWM banners, 3 and four digits. Thanks

[vesuvio]

Pics

[vesuvio]

Are the markings in the last picture correct?

[hayhugh]

Some 4"s are closed and some are open....

[mrerick]

The Imperial Erfurt Arsenal was dismantled after WW-I in 1918 and it's tooling and machines were sent to Simson & Company in Suhl where they began Luger production in 1924-1925. They produced Lugers on this tooling until the Nazi government took over the Jewish owned company and relocated it's Luger production assets to Krieghoff.

Production of a Luger by the Erfurt Imperial arsenal in 1933 is not possible. No. It is not an original Erfurt Luger made in 1933.

It does look like it could be mostly an Erfurt Luger. The receiver may have been replaced, and the frame front shaved and renumbered (it looks like the receiver may be proud of the frame). Internal factory inspection markings could help identify the frame and receiver parts.

Please see our FAQ document for details.

It may have been rebuilt in some kind of field or arsenal operation and marked in this way at that point. Some members here may comment on rebuild operations that were supposed to be active in concentration camps, which this piece may be marked to indicate. Whether that is authentic or not I do not know.

[Doubs]

If I'm reading Gortz & Sturgess' book correctly, you have a Luger that was newly manufactured using both new and used parts by the repair facility in Kassel, Germany, in 1933 before the Nazis came to power. The Lugers were made for the German Army and completely refinished to be as new. They apparently were serial numbered in their own serial range.

Following WW!, the German Army established Ordnance Depots called "Heeres-Zeugamter" abbreviated "H. Za" and also subsidiary repair facilities which collectively were termed "Feldzengdienstellen" or Ordnance Headquarters. The facility in Kassel was identified by the letters "KL".

So what you have is a "newly made" Luger using a WW1 Erfurt frame and toggle train and a DWM receiver that was originally on an Artillery Luger. It has a new barrel. The original date on the receiver and the original Erfurt serial number on the frame were scrubbed. New serial numbers were then stamped on the parts needing them to make an all matching gun and the "KL 1933" stamped over the chamber.

It's a rather unique Luger as the number of Lugers made at Kassel would not be great. A nice find.

[Karl]

Front of frame appears to have been ground down for new serial number (note that front of receiver is proud of the frame). No photo of back of grip but stock lug missing, either ground off or an earlier frame. A sharper view of proof marks on side of receiver might provide true date of its manufacture. I do not see a serial number on barrel.

KFS

[vesuvio]

Here few close ups

[vesuvio]

Pics