How Much Cleaning...?

Pete Ebbink · 03-03-2004, 02:56 PM

Would like to get some opinions on how much cleaning is enough when a collector-grade luger is brought home.

I know one local collector that cleans his guns so throughly, they look like they just came from the factory. I think he even cleans up the rust/patina with application of Flitch or Simichrome.

Another collector near me uses an ultra-sonic cleaner/bath...

Seems like they are throughly cleaned but in the process the signs of age are removed (i.e. rust, patina, old caked-on grease and cosmoline, etc.)

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Herb · 03-03-2004, 03:40 PM

Pete, I think that the amount of cleaning is a personal choice. The evidence fo dried up oil and grease on/under internal parts is often a good sign of it not being refinished at some time in the past. However the lack thereof does not necessarily indicate a reblue either. I personally like mine clean on the outside and really don't bother too much with the internals with the exception of the ones that might cause a malfunction. One thing that has me puzzled though is the talk about the inside of the frames being 'in the white'. Every one of my Lugers that otherwise show no indication of a reblue or refinish is blued internally. I have yet to see one 'in the white'.

Doubs · 03-03-2004, 04:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Herb:
One thing that has me puzzled though is the talk about the inside of the frames being 'in the white'. Every one of my Lugers that otherwise show no indication of a reblue or refinish is blued internally. I have yet to see one 'in the white'.<hr /></blockquote>If it's an Imperial-era Luger or made before the time Mauser went to salt bluing, the interior of the frame, the underside and interior of the slide rails should be "in the white". Salt bluing is a dip process whereas rust blue was applied by hand and the interior was left in it's original state..... unblued. There may be some exceptions but I don't know what they'd be.

John Sabato · 03-03-2004, 04:51 PM

I concur with Doubs... if it was made before 1937 the interior of the gun should be int he white. The magazine well, the top of the inside of the grip frame. Rust blue is hand applied on the outside of the gun. Blue on the interior says the the gun was dipped... not the original process.

I don't have my photo library archive available this week or I would post some photos showing what the inside should look like. Perhaps someone else has some good photos to show this distinction.

Edward Tinker · 03-03-2004, 05:18 PM

Pete, on the cleaning issue, when I was a Unit Armorer in the army, they told us that more guns are damaged by over-cleaning, than by not cleaning them.

Ed

Dwight Gruber · 03-03-2004, 11:22 PM

Here are picturs of the frame interior of my 1914 LP-08 Erfurt. Not the best pictures, but they will serve. The inside of my 1911 Erfurt is as white and clean as if it was made yesterday.

I don't remember where I read this, but...rust blued Lugers were blued in several stages, the rusting chemicals applied and the rust carded off several times before the finish reached its final depth. The interior of the gun was polished white after every applicatioin.

--Dwight

03-03-2004, 02:56 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	How Much Cleaning...? Would like to get some opinions on how much cleaning is enough when a collector-grade luger is brought home. I know one local collector that cleans his guns so throughly, they look like they just came from the factory. I think he even cleans up the rust/patina with application of Flitch or Simichrome. Another collector near me uses an ultra-sonic cleaner/bath... Seems like they are throughly cleaned but in the process the signs of age are removed (i.e. rust, patina, old caked-on grease and cosmoline, etc.) Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-03-2004, 03:40 PM	#2
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pete, I think that the amount of cleaning is a personal choice. The evidence fo dried up oil and grease on/under internal parts is often a good sign of it not being refinished at some time in the past. However the lack thereof does not necessarily indicate a reblue either. I personally like mine clean on the outside and really don't bother too much with the internals with the exception of the ones that might cause a malfunction. One thing that has me puzzled though is the talk about the inside of the frames being 'in the white'. Every one of my Lugers that otherwise show no indication of a reblue or refinish is blued internally. I have yet to see one 'in the white'. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

03-03-2004, 04:40 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Herb: <strong>One thing that has me puzzled though is the talk about the inside of the frames being 'in the white'. Every one of my Lugers that otherwise show no indication of a reblue or refinish is blued internally. I have yet to see one 'in the white'.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">If it's an Imperial-era Luger or made before the time Mauser went to salt bluing, the interior of the frame, the underside and interior of the slide rails should be "in the white". Salt bluing is a dip process whereas rust blue was applied by hand and the interior was left in it's original state..... unblued. There may be some exceptions but I don't know what they'd be.

03-03-2004, 04:51 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I concur with Doubs... if it was made before 1937 the interior of the gun should be int he white. The magazine well, the top of the inside of the grip frame. Rust blue is hand applied on the outside of the gun. Blue on the interior says the the gun was dipped... not the original process. I don't have my photo library archive available this week or I would post some photos showing what the inside should look like. Perhaps someone else has some good photos to show this distinction. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-03-2004, 05:18 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Pete, on the cleaning issue, when I was a Unit Armorer in the army, they told us that more guns are damaged by over-cleaning, than by not cleaning them. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-03-2004, 11:22 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Here are picturs of the frame interior of my 1914 LP-08 Erfurt. Not the best pictures, but they will serve. The inside of my 1911 Erfurt is as white and clean as if it was made yesterday. I don't remember where I read this, but...rust blued Lugers were blued in several stages, the rusting chemicals applied and the rust carded off several times before the finish reached its final depth. The interior of the gun was polished white after every applicatioin. --Dwight