byf 42 questions especially mark on barrel.

Mike Fitz · 11-02-2003, 05:13 PM

Hi Everybody,
The other day while checking stuff out in one of our few and far between gun stores here in New Jersey I found a mismatched byf 42 P-08. Serial number is 413. The 413 also appears on the front of the frame (I forgot what the letter block was) and under the barrel along with 883.
With the exception of the toggle and extractor - both marked 37, the # 13 is on all visible parts that I could see including the rear toggle pin.

Waffenamts Eagle over 655 (2 of them) and the Nazi proof are on the right side of the frame.
Right side of the barrel has the small Nazi proof. Next to the proof on the barrel is what appears to be an ASTERISK. Does anybody know what that indicates?
Blued finish appears to be original and I would rate it at about 80-85%.
Grips are checkered wood and appear to be in good condition.
The magazines is silver (like bluing was worn off with aluminum base and stamped with a 4 digit serial number, a + and Eagle over 37. I didn't notice any lettering on the side but that doesn't mean there wasn't any.

They obviously wouldn't let me field strip it (BTW got it down to under 5 minutes now Pete

) to check the internal numbers.

They were asking $600 for it and I talked them down to $450 but I have to make a decision by Monday noon.

It also comes with a P-08 holster that looks way to new to be original.

Is $450 a good price for a mismatched shooter?

And does anyone know what the ASTERISK on the barrel means?

As always, your opinions & input is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike

Herb · 11-02-2003, 06:10 PM

Hello Mike. According to Costanzo, page 156, item # 2 that 'asterisk' is a 1939-1942 barrel proof found on the barrel of the 41 and 42 byf models and on the toggle of the 1939/42 supposedly indicating the end of the production run. In my opinion $450 with holster is a fairly good price, shooters are getting out of hand and one can usually expect to pay $500-$550 now for one in decent shape. Be sure to check the condition of the bore.

Mike Fitz · 11-02-2003, 07:28 PM

Hi Herb,
Thanks for your information.
The "Asterisk" did not appear to be stamped. More like it was hand engraved. I am going to bring my jewelers loupe tomorrow when I check it out further.

Mike

Johnny C. Kitchens · 11-02-2003, 09:11 PM

I'm wondering if it really is a byf 42. I thought the bore size was dropped from byf 42. The 883 on the barrel is the bore size as in 8.83mm. Is there a byf stamped on the toggle. Be sure to get that frame letter. Maybe it is an extra early byf 42...

Herb · 11-02-2003, 09:47 PM

Johnny, both of my byf42's have the bore size #'s on the barrel. One is 2567b, the other 2922b. One 8.82 the other 8.83.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 11-02-2003, 10:31 PM

A BYF 42 should have the E/135 proof on the rightframe, not a 655.
Lonnie

Herb · 11-02-2003, 10:46 PM

Lonnie, I agree, the 655 sould have been used thru 1941 then the 135 come in 1942. Both of mine have the E/135 acceptance stamp. Could this be a very early 42 retaining the 655 stamp since the serial # is 413? Since Costanzo indicates the asterisk is thought to mean the end of a contract could it have actually continued into 1942? Stranger things have appeared. Might be a rare variation heretofore unknown?? Need more input from other owners.

Mike Fitz · 11-02-2003, 11:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Johnny C. Kitchens:
I'm wondering if it really is a byf 42. I thought the bore size was dropped from byf 42. The 883 on the barrel is the bore size as in 8.83mm. Is there a byf stamped on the toggle. Be sure to get that frame letter. Maybe it is an extra early byf 42...<hr /></blockquote>Hi Johnny,
Upper frame over the breech has 42 stamped.
Definitely has the byf on the center toggle link along with small 37. Rear toggle link and extractor are each stamped 37.
Mike

Mike Fitz · 11-03-2003, 12:56 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mike Fitz:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Johnny C. Kitchens:
I'm wondering if it really is a byf 42. I thought the bore size was dropped from byf 42. The 883 on the barrel is the bore size as in 8.83mm. Is there a byf stamped on the toggle. Be sure to get that frame letter. Maybe it is an extra early byf 42...<hr /></blockquote>Hi Johnny,
Upper frame over the breech has 42 stamped.
Definitely has the byf on the center toggle link along with small 37. Rear toggle link and extractor are each stamped 37.
Mike<hr /></blockquote>I got to thinking about this Luger and called my friend who was with me and asked him if the date on the Luger was 42. He said he remembered it as being 1942 and not 42.
He affirmed the byf and 37 on the center toggle link and the 37 on both extractor and rear toggle link.
Would the 1942 account for the E/655 Waffenamts?
What kind of Luger would this then be?
Sorry for posting the wrong info. I should have written everything down and I do appreciate your patience with us "dumb" newbies.
Mike

Roadkill · 11-03-2003, 07:56 AM

Buy it.

rk

John Sabato · 11-03-2003, 10:38 AM

I concur with Roadkill... If this is a good price... we are talking one heck of a good Mauser made Luger shooter... BUY IT.

Mike Fitz · 11-03-2003, 05:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by John Sabato:
I concur with Roadkill... If this is a good price... we are talking one heck of a good Mauser made Luger shooter... BUY IT.<hr /></blockquote>Hi John & Roadkill,
Went back this morning cash in hand only to discover that it was gone.
Apparently the owner had it there on consignment and either changed his mind or ended up selling it privately.
As a takeoff on the old saying goes, "He who hesitates.....loses." <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />
Thanks again to everybody for your help,

Mike

Johnny C. Kitchens · 11-03-2003, 09:48 PM

My byf 42 doesn't have the bore diameter. Here is what Jan C. Still's "Third Reich Lugers" says on page 66. "barrel gauge stamp (8.81-8.85) deleted during 1942." The book also shows the E/135 acceptance (spelled acxceptance in the book) as coming into use in the byf 41 series during the last 4000 units produced...

11-02-2003, 05:13 PM	#1
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	byf 42 questions especially mark on barrel. Hi Everybody, The other day while checking stuff out in one of our few and far between gun stores here in New Jersey I found a mismatched byf 42 P-08. Serial number is 413. The 413 also appears on the front of the frame (I forgot what the letter block was) and under the barrel along with 883. With the exception of the toggle and extractor - both marked 37, the # 13 is on all visible parts that I could see including the rear toggle pin. Waffenamts Eagle over 655 (2 of them) and the Nazi proof are on the right side of the frame. Right side of the barrel has the small Nazi proof. Next to the proof on the barrel is what appears to be an ASTERISK. Does anybody know what that indicates? Blued finish appears to be original and I would rate it at about 80-85%. Grips are checkered wood and appear to be in good condition. The magazines is silver (like bluing was worn off with aluminum base and stamped with a 4 digit serial number, a + and Eagle over 37. I didn't notice any lettering on the side but that doesn't mean there wasn't any. They obviously wouldn't let me field strip it (BTW got it down to under 5 minutes now Pete ) to check the internal numbers. They were asking $600 for it and I talked them down to $450 but I have to make a decision by Monday noon. It also comes with a P-08 holster that looks way to new to be original. Is $450 a good price for a mismatched shooter? And does anyone know what the ASTERISK on the barrel means? As always, your opinions & input is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike

11-02-2003, 06:10 PM	#2
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hello Mike. According to Costanzo, page 156, item # 2 that 'asterisk' is a 1939-1942 barrel proof found on the barrel of the 41 and 42 byf models and on the toggle of the 1939/42 supposedly indicating the end of the production run. In my opinion $450 with holster is a fairly good price, shooters are getting out of hand and one can usually expect to pay $500-$550 now for one in decent shape. Be sure to check the condition of the bore. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

11-02-2003, 09:11 PM	#4
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I'm wondering if it really is a byf 42. I thought the bore size was dropped from byf 42. The 883 on the barrel is the bore size as in 8.83mm. Is there a byf stamped on the toggle. Be sure to get that frame letter. Maybe it is an extra early byf 42... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

11-02-2003, 09:47 PM	#5
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Johnny, both of my byf42's have the bore size #'s on the barrel. One is 2567b, the other 2922b. One 8.82 the other 8.83. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

11-02-2003, 10:31 PM	#6
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	A BYF 42 should have the E/135 proof on the rightframe, not a 655. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

11-02-2003, 07:28 PM	#3
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Herb, Thanks for your information. The "Asterisk" did not appear to be stamped. More like it was hand engraved. I am going to bring my jewelers loupe tomorrow when I check it out further. Mike

11-02-2003, 10:46 PM	#7
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Lonnie, I agree, the 655 sould have been used thru 1941 then the 135 come in 1942. Both of mine have the E/135 acceptance stamp. Could this be a very early 42 retaining the 655 stamp since the serial # is 413? Since Costanzo indicates the asterisk is thought to mean the end of a contract could it have actually continued into 1942? Stranger things have appeared. Might be a rare variation heretofore unknown?? Need more input from other owners. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

11-02-2003, 11:37 PM	#8
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Johnny C. Kitchens: <strong>I'm wondering if it really is a byf 42. I thought the bore size was dropped from byf 42. The 883 on the barrel is the bore size as in 8.83mm. Is there a byf stamped on the toggle. Be sure to get that frame letter. Maybe it is an extra early byf 42...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Johnny, Upper frame over the breech has 42 stamped. Definitely has the byf on the center toggle link along with small 37. Rear toggle link and extractor are each stamped 37. Mike

11-03-2003, 12:56 AM	#9
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Mike Fitz: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Johnny C. Kitchens: <strong>I'm wondering if it really is a byf 42. I thought the bore size was dropped from byf 42. The 883 on the barrel is the bore size as in 8.83mm. Is there a byf stamped on the toggle. Be sure to get that frame letter. Maybe it is an extra early byf 42...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Johnny, Upper frame over the breech has 42 stamped. Definitely has the byf on the center toggle link along with small 37. Rear toggle link and extractor are each stamped 37. Mike</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I got to thinking about this Luger and called my friend who was with me and asked him if the date on the Luger was 42. He said he remembered it as being 1942 and not 42. He affirmed the byf and 37 on the center toggle link and the 37 on both extractor and rear toggle link. Would the 1942 account for the E/655 Waffenamts? What kind of Luger would this then be? Sorry for posting the wrong info. I should have written everything down and I do appreciate your patience with us "dumb" newbies. Mike

11-03-2003, 07:56 AM	#10
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Buy it. rk

11-03-2003, 10:38 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I concur with Roadkill... If this is a good price... we are talking one heck of a good Mauser made Luger shooter... BUY IT. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-03-2003, 05:29 PM	#12
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by John Sabato: <strong>I concur with Roadkill... If this is a good price... we are talking one heck of a good Mauser made Luger shooter... BUY IT.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi John & Roadkill, Went back this morning cash in hand only to discover that it was gone. Apparently the owner had it there on consignment and either changed his mind or ended up selling it privately. As a takeoff on the old saying goes, "He who hesitates.....loses." <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> Thanks again to everybody for your help, Mike

11-03-2003, 09:48 PM	#13
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	My byf 42 doesn't have the bore diameter. Here is what Jan C. Still's "Third Reich Lugers" says on page 66. "barrel gauge stamp (8.81-8.85) deleted during 1942." The book also shows the E/135 acceptance (spelled acxceptance in the book) as coming into use in the byf 41 series during the last 4000 units produced... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens