Need some help with my first (1911 Erfurt)

Werepig · 09-21-2003, 09:35 PM

Hello!

I Just bought my first Luger yesterday and would appreciate any help gathering information about the gun and its value.

As my digital camera drowned few weeks ago, I just have to describe it:

Manufactured 1911
Serial 7587 (no suffixes)
All parts (as far as I could determine, except magazine) matching
Some straw visible (about 10-20%, maybe bit more)
Some pitting on the left side of reciever (sideplate, takedown lever etc.)
Bore OK - no visible rust or pitting
Marking: serial and proof marks on all parts, eagle on top of barrel, three crowned letters and eagle on the right side of reciever, letter reminding D on forward part of front sight, odd mark reminding 8 on left of a grip, down near a screw.

Well, thats it shortly. I'm really out of my depth here and would appreciate it greatly if somebody would guide me on this one. My e-mail is mailto:[email protected][email protected]</a> , so drop me a note or post here in forum.

kidvett · 09-22-2003, 12:12 AM

Hello,

1911 ERFURT is a rare bird as it is a Pre War pistol ( few are encountered ) and is the first year of ERFURT Produced Lugers ( production of 10 000 pistols in 1911 ).

It should have the ERFURT Proof on ALL parts to even include grip screws & recoil lever !

Original bluing : watch for different shades of blue ( cold blue touch ups...) Sharp corners on markings ( polishing before rebluing...) and that the inside of the frame is white ( bare steel ) The rust blue that is in your pistol could be described as a blue-grey...

Value ?? PICS would surely help on establishing an approximate value...

Congrats ! on that early ERFURT!

Mark <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Werepig · 10-02-2003, 05:58 AM

Well, finally figured it out how to post photos

Here they are:

The gun also has an interesting history which was one of the main reasons I bought this pistol. It once belonged to an Estonian shooter Elmar Kivistik. He is still most achieved Estonian sportsman who won 14 World Chamionships, 6 of them individually if I remember correctly. He also established few world records, one of which stood for 17 years.
His glory-days were World Championships in Rome, Helsinki, and Luzern in the end of 1930'es, where Estonian rifle team shone and twice came back with silver Argentine Cup presented for best country.
WWII ended his career though. As an acomplished sportsman and Master Sergeant of Estonian Defence Forces he was persecuted by new power. He managed to avoid recruitment to Red Army in 1941 and joined forest brothers resistance movement after the war, but was trapped by NKVD while attemting to flee into Sweden and was exiled to Siberia.
He was able to return after death of Stalin in 1956 and lived to the end of his days at his home county, working as handyman and welder until his death in 1973. His leg was amputated in his old age because of strenuous exercises to deaden his knee-nerve (his favourite shooting positsion was kneeling).

Any suggestions about it's worth? Pistol seems to be rebarreled (1930'es Weimar?) and the mag is some kind of replacement.
Also it would be interesting to know how much the rebarreling/refurbishing of the gun has altered it's price.

Thanks:
Ivo

kidvett · 10-06-2003, 12:14 AM

Hello,

Like you stated, the barrel is a Weimar Era replacement as indicated by the renumbering & Proofmarks. It does not alter the value of your piece ( well, not in my book ). BUT, the condition does !! Even with it's original finish, the scattered pitts do alter the value of this Pre War pistol. You'll notice the Erfurt Proof on the right side of the frame behind the trigger indicating an added hold open...as it was manufactured in 1911 without one. In a convervative manner, I'd state a value close to a good + shooter...in the 600-800 range.

To me, your pistol is a valuable one as it is the first year of Erfurt production. ( I DO NOT have an 1911 in my Erfurt collection !! )

I'd get a correct mag ( wood base, nickle body & double Erfurt proofs ) as soon as possible to complete your piece which I believe is a nice addition to a collection...( until you can upgrade it...but that's another story !! )

Mark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Lugerdoc · 10-06-2003, 11:36 AM

Mark, Slight correction! Two 1910 dated Erfurts have emerged from the woodwork in the last couple of years. All that have examined these 2 digit serial PO8s believe them to be correct. TH

09-21-2003, 09:35 PM	#1
Werepig New User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Estonia Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need some help with my first (1911 Erfurt) Hello! I Just bought my first Luger yesterday and would appreciate any help gathering information about the gun and its value. As my digital camera drowned few weeks ago, I just have to describe it: Manufactured 1911 Serial 7587 (no suffixes) All parts (as far as I could determine, except magazine) matching Some straw visible (about 10-20%, maybe bit more) Some pitting on the left side of reciever (sideplate, takedown lever etc.) Bore OK - no visible rust or pitting Marking: serial and proof marks on all parts, eagle on top of barrel, three crowned letters and eagle on the right side of reciever, letter reminding D on forward part of front sight, odd mark reminding 8 on left of a grip, down near a screw. Well, thats it shortly. I'm really out of my depth here and would appreciate it greatly if somebody would guide me on this one. My e-mail is mailto:[email protected][email protected]</a> , so drop me a note or post here in forum.

10-06-2003, 11:36 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Mark, Slight correction! Two 1910 dated Erfurts have emerged from the woodwork in the last couple of years. All that have examined these 2 digit serial PO8s believe them to be correct. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

09-22-2003, 12:12 AM	#2
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hello, 1911 ERFURT is a rare bird as it is a Pre War pistol ( few are encountered ) and is the first year of ERFURT Produced Lugers ( production of 10 000 pistols in 1911 ). It should have the ERFURT Proof on ALL parts to even include grip screws & recoil lever ! Original bluing : watch for different shades of blue ( cold blue touch ups...) Sharp corners on markings ( polishing before rebluing...) and that the inside of the frame is white ( bare steel ) The rust blue that is in your pistol could be described as a blue-grey... Value ?? PICS would surely help on establishing an approximate value... Congrats ! on that early ERFURT! Mark <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

10-02-2003, 05:58 AM	#3
Werepig New User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Estonia Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, finally figured it out how to post photos Here they are: The gun also has an interesting history which was one of the main reasons I bought this pistol. It once belonged to an Estonian shooter Elmar Kivistik. He is still most achieved Estonian sportsman who won 14 World Chamionships, 6 of them individually if I remember correctly. He also established few world records, one of which stood for 17 years. His glory-days were World Championships in Rome, Helsinki, and Luzern in the end of 1930'es, where Estonian rifle team shone and twice came back with silver Argentine Cup presented for best country. WWII ended his career though. As an acomplished sportsman and Master Sergeant of Estonian Defence Forces he was persecuted by new power. He managed to avoid recruitment to Red Army in 1941 and joined forest brothers resistance movement after the war, but was trapped by NKVD while attemting to flee into Sweden and was exiled to Siberia. He was able to return after death of Stalin in 1956 and lived to the end of his days at his home county, working as handyman and welder until his death in 1973. His leg was amputated in his old age because of strenuous exercises to deaden his knee-nerve (his favourite shooting positsion was kneeling). Any suggestions about it's worth? Pistol seems to be rebarreled (1930'es Weimar?) and the mag is some kind of replacement. Also it would be interesting to know how much the rebarreling/refurbishing of the gun has altered it's price. Thanks: Ivo

10-06-2003, 12:14 AM	#4
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hello, Like you stated, the barrel is a Weimar Era replacement as indicated by the renumbering & Proofmarks. It does not alter the value of your piece ( well, not in my book ). BUT, the condition does !! Even with it's original finish, the scattered pitts do alter the value of this Pre War pistol. You'll notice the Erfurt Proof on the right side of the frame behind the trigger indicating an added hold open...as it was manufactured in 1911 without one. In a convervative manner, I'd state a value close to a good + shooter...in the 600-800 range. To me, your pistol is a valuable one as it is the first year of Erfurt production. ( I DO NOT have an 1911 in my Erfurt collection !! ) I'd get a correct mag ( wood base, nickle body & double Erfurt proofs ) as soon as possible to complete your piece which I believe is a nice addition to a collection...( until you can upgrade it...but that's another story !! ) Mark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />