HHHeiser (Denver) Luger Holster...

Pete Ebbink · 09-24-2003, 07:51 PM

Just created a Member's Gallery for my newly acquired HH Heiser (Denver) luger holster.

I have loaned my E. Bender holster books to a friend for a couple of weeks. For folks with Bender's big book, can you remind me when Heiser was in business and when my holster might have been made ?

As you can see, a 4-3/4" bbl luger (my M2 Portuguese) fits extremely well. Cannot believe how well form-fitted this piece of leather is...

I was on a business trip to Golden, CO and had a few hours to visit gun shops before my return flight.

Found this one in a very nice and large gun shop in Aurora, CO which is just SE of Denver. This is a very well-stocked C&R gun shop with lots of great stuff (but no lugers on this trip

). Gun shops in CA-State just do not get this BIG !!!

Gun shop info. is :

The Firing Line
20 S. Potomac
Aurora, CO.
Tele. No. 303.363.0041

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 09-25-2003, 12:23 PM

Pete,
That is a great looking holster. The condition is much better than most Heisers I have seen (and I haven't seen that many - they are tough to come by). You have scored well again. Congrats.

Imperial Arms · 09-25-2003, 02:13 PM

Hello Pete,

You have found a great condition holster indeed! You probably need a (1906 or later) AE Luger pistol with a 4 3/4" barrel to combine with that holster.

Well done,
Albert

Pete Ebbink · 09-25-2003, 05:37 PM

Thanks, Guys....!

I am lucky to be able to "stumble" across the good-conditioned leather piece from time to time.

You folks did not tell me how addictive luger leather would be when I started my little luger bug 1-1/2 years ago. I find it is easier finding lugers to add to my collection than to find decent-conditioned leather holsters...as I am sure all have found...

When I was fortunate enough to see Jim Eckert's wonderful luger and holster display (see photo) at the Tulsa gun show a year or so ago, I realized how much fun it might be to chase down some holsters of my own...

This HHH holster was just one of those lucky finds...I am not sure the folks really new what they had...since it was thrown in a glass display case with only SA Colts and such...the price I paid (a little over $ 100) also confirms they may not have known...

Albert, I think you are right about this holster needing to be paired with a nice AE luger...but I am close to chasing down a nice 1900 Swiss luger (in the low 2xx serials) that will make me luger poor, again...but I will keep an eyeout for an AE in my travels...

Maybe my next lucky luger holster find will be a mint Audley holster in 4-3/4" in another dolls/antiques shop for less than $ 100... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 09-25-2003, 06:05 PM

Good luck on the Audley...but for goodness sake don't put a nice Luger in one. The spring clip can scratch the bejeebers out of the trigger guard.

P.S. - You stole the Heiser.

Pete Ebbink · 09-25-2003, 10:50 PM

Hello Ron,

I will not have my Bender books back for a couple of weeks as they are on loan to a luger-friend here in town.

Any chance you might know the date-range of my HHHieser holster ?

I think with sales tax, the piece ran $ 127.50...I was more than happy to pay...

Thanks for the tip about the Audley...guess that spring steel must really be stout...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

RockinWR · 09-26-2003, 12:34 AM

Pete,
* Heiser filed an application for his trade mark on Oct., 21, 1878. His death occurred Sept., 11, 1904. He was 68. The firm continued to prosper under the leadership of the founder's 3 sons. The firm was bought out in 1945 by Denver Dry Goods Co. which continued to provide leather goods with Heiser's name until 1950. The firm was than sold to Keyston Brothers of San Francisco.
* As to the date, I do not detect a specific date for design 435 given by Gene Bender. I infer from the text when saddle sales began to ebb due to the automobile, holsters flourished. Many of the great, top name Pre and Post WWI Wholesalers were customers of Heiser. Ambercrombie & Fitch, VL&D, Browning Brothers, Sears, etc.
* Your holster's date may be narrowed by a search for Heiser info, especially history or catalog, which would list the design 435 inception/span.
* Hope this helps. Don't tear the cover off your Benders when you get it back.
Respectfully,
Bob

Ron Wood · 09-26-2003, 01:05 AM

Bender does not give a chronological breakdown of Heiser holsters by style or style number. He does give a very detailed biography of Hermann H. Heiser, and some information can be inferred from that bio. The HHH logo came into being in 1878 and the firm continued in operation by the Heiser family until 1945 when the firm was sold to the Denver Dry Goods Company. Bender states that DDGC continued to operate the Heiser shop until 1950, but doesn't indicate if the HHH logo remained on their products.

With the advent of the automobile and tractor, sale of saddle goods declined, but the holster business flourished. From that you might postulate that the most probable date for a surviving Heiser holster might be from around 1910 to 1940, plus or minus on either end.

Heiser quality remained pretty consistent throughout all the years of production, so it is hard to detect variations in style, stitching, finish, etc., over the years. One marker that I have noted is that the earlier holsters used rivets bearing the HHH stamp. An example is shown in Bender of an artillery length holster with this type of rivet. That would seem to me to indicate that the HHH rivet was in use into the '20s since it is very doubtful sufficient artillery length Lugers would have been in the US to warrant production of such a holster until they became commercially available through Stoeger, A&F, Pacific Arms, etc. Since the holster you found has a plain rivet, it may or may not place manufacture in the late '20s early '30s timeframe.

Most of the Heiser holsters I have seen have had the inscription "Luger" and barrel length hand embossed on the back of the holster. But, this was not a consistent practice as Bender shows examples with and without this marking, so I can't attach any date correlation to this feature.

All of the foregoing is pure conjecture, so don't place any bets on its accuracy.

With regard to the Audley spring steel being really stout, it wasn't. The catch had to be easily depressed with the trigger finger to draw the weapon (if the pistol wasn't on "safe", such an action with the trigger finger may have resulted in the creation of "open toe" Audleys!). The downside of placing a really nice Luger in an Audley holster is the metal to metal contact of the catch and trigger guard, which could result in damage to the finish if the Luger is not very carefully placed into the holster. If inserted carefully, a Luger could be displayed in an Audley, but I certainly would not carry a nice Luger in an Audley hoster. They are still a very desirable holster to have in a collection.

Ron Wood · 09-26-2003, 01:43 AM

Look what happens when you get long winded! While I was writing my dissertation, Bob delivered the goods.

Edward Tinker · 09-26-2003, 02:07 AM

But worth reading both posts,

Nice write up guys!

Ed

Pete Ebbink · 09-26-2003, 01:20 PM

Thanks, Ron and Bob for the great info on HHH and Audley !

Regards,

Pete...
<img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-24-2003, 07:51 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	HHHeiser (Denver) Luger Holster... Just created a Member's Gallery for my newly acquired HH Heiser (Denver) luger holster. I have loaned my E. Bender holster books to a friend for a couple of weeks. For folks with Bender's big book, can you remind me when Heiser was in business and when my holster might have been made ? As you can see, a 4-3/4" bbl luger (my M2 Portuguese) fits extremely well. Cannot believe how well form-fitted this piece of leather is... I was on a business trip to Golden, CO and had a few hours to visit gun shops before my return flight. Found this one in a very nice and large gun shop in Aurora, CO which is just SE of Denver. This is a very well-stocked C&R gun shop with lots of great stuff (but no lugers on this trip ). Gun shops in CA-State just do not get this BIG !!! Gun shop info. is : The Firing Line 20 S. Potomac Aurora, CO. Tele. No. 303.363.0041 Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-25-2003, 12:23 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Pete, That is a great looking holster. The condition is much better than most Heisers I have seen (and I haven't seen that many - they are tough to come by). You have scored well again. Congrats. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-25-2003, 06:05 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Good luck on the Audley...but for goodness sake don't put a nice Luger in one. The spring clip can scratch the bejeebers out of the trigger guard. P.S. - You stole the Heiser. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-26-2003, 01:05 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Bender does not give a chronological breakdown of Heiser holsters by style or style number. He does give a very detailed biography of Hermann H. Heiser, and some information can be inferred from that bio. The HHH logo came into being in 1878 and the firm continued in operation by the Heiser family until 1945 when the firm was sold to the Denver Dry Goods Company. Bender states that DDGC continued to operate the Heiser shop until 1950, but doesn't indicate if the HHH logo remained on their products. With the advent of the automobile and tractor, sale of saddle goods declined, but the holster business flourished. From that you might postulate that the most probable date for a surviving Heiser holster might be from around 1910 to 1940, plus or minus on either end. Heiser quality remained pretty consistent throughout all the years of production, so it is hard to detect variations in style, stitching, finish, etc., over the years. One marker that I have noted is that the earlier holsters used rivets bearing the HHH stamp. An example is shown in Bender of an artillery length holster with this type of rivet. That would seem to me to indicate that the HHH rivet was in use into the '20s since it is very doubtful sufficient artillery length Lugers would have been in the US to warrant production of such a holster until they became commercially available through Stoeger, A&F, Pacific Arms, etc. Since the holster you found has a plain rivet, it may or may not place manufacture in the late '20s early '30s timeframe. Most of the Heiser holsters I have seen have had the inscription "Luger" and barrel length hand embossed on the back of the holster. But, this was not a consistent practice as Bender shows examples with and without this marking, so I can't attach any date correlation to this feature. All of the foregoing is pure conjecture, so don't place any bets on its accuracy. With regard to the Audley spring steel being really stout, it wasn't. The catch had to be easily depressed with the trigger finger to draw the weapon (if the pistol wasn't on "safe", such an action with the trigger finger may have resulted in the creation of "open toe" Audleys!). The downside of placing a really nice Luger in an Audley holster is the metal to metal contact of the catch and trigger guard, which could result in damage to the finish if the Luger is not very carefully placed into the holster. If inserted carefully, a Luger could be displayed in an Audley, but I certainly would not carry a nice Luger in an Audley hoster. They are still a very desirable holster to have in a collection. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-26-2003, 01:43 AM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Look what happens when you get long winded! While I was writing my dissertation, Bob delivered the goods. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-25-2003, 02:13 PM	#3
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Hello Pete, You have found a great condition holster indeed! You probably need a (1906 or later) AE Luger pistol with a 4 3/4" barrel to combine with that holster. Well done, Albert

09-25-2003, 05:37 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks, Guys....! I am lucky to be able to "stumble" across the good-conditioned leather piece from time to time. You folks did not tell me how addictive luger leather would be when I started my little luger bug 1-1/2 years ago. I find it is easier finding lugers to add to my collection than to find decent-conditioned leather holsters...as I am sure all have found... When I was fortunate enough to see Jim Eckert's wonderful luger and holster display (see photo) at the Tulsa gun show a year or so ago, I realized how much fun it might be to chase down some holsters of my own... This HHH holster was just one of those lucky finds...I am not sure the folks really new what they had...since it was thrown in a glass display case with only SA Colts and such...the price I paid (a little over $ 100) also confirms they may not have known... Albert, I think you are right about this holster needing to be paired with a nice AE luger...but I am close to chasing down a nice 1900 Swiss luger (in the low 2xx serials) that will make me luger poor, again...but I will keep an eyeout for an AE in my travels... Maybe my next lucky luger holster find will be a mint Audley holster in 4-3/4" in another dolls/antiques shop for less than $ 100... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-25-2003, 10:50 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Ron, I will not have my Bender books back for a couple of weeks as they are on loan to a luger-friend here in town. Any chance you might know the date-range of my HHHieser holster ? I think with sales tax, the piece ran $ 127.50...I was more than happy to pay... Thanks for the tip about the Audley...guess that spring steel must really be stout... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-26-2003, 12:34 AM	#7
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Pete, * Heiser filed an application for his trade mark on Oct., 21, 1878. His death occurred Sept., 11, 1904. He was 68. The firm continued to prosper under the leadership of the founder's 3 sons. The firm was bought out in 1945 by Denver Dry Goods Co. which continued to provide leather goods with Heiser's name until 1950. The firm was than sold to Keyston Brothers of San Francisco. * As to the date, I do not detect a specific date for design 435 given by Gene Bender. I infer from the text when saddle sales began to ebb due to the automobile, holsters flourished. Many of the great, top name Pre and Post WWI Wholesalers were customers of Heiser. Ambercrombie & Fitch, VL&D, Browning Brothers, Sears, etc. * Your holster's date may be narrowed by a search for Heiser info, especially history or catalog, which would list the design 435 inception/span. * Hope this helps. Don't tear the cover off your Benders when you get it back. Respectfully, Bob

09-26-2003, 02:07 AM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	But worth reading both posts, Nice write up guys! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-26-2003, 01:20 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks, Ron and Bob for the great info on HHH and Audley ! Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />