Simson Police Rework ?

guy sajer · 01-22-2005, 12:34 PM

Sorry I have no pics .

I have been offered a DWM Luger represented as a Simson Police Rework . I'm not sure if it's "right" . Possibly you can give me a few tips on what to look for ? I will try to describe it as best I can .

* DWM toggle , 1918 date with roughly stamped 1920 above it .
* Serial 9xx k
* "S" in a circle stamped LH side receiver in front of serial number .
* All parts are numbered in the military style positions .
* 4 digit number stamped rear of frame above lanyard attachment
* sear safety intact
* no police unit stamps on front strap
* right side receiver proofs same as in Costanzo "World of Lugers" p293 1918 DWM example #127
* barrel proof Costanzo page 282 #2 RH side

Other than the "circle S" , sear safety and the 4 digit number on back of frame , I see no other non-standard military markings .

I realize it's tough to tell without visual inspection , but any opinions are appreciated .

Thanks !

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2005, 12:47 PM

mitch, I have some collected info on circle "S"'s, as I bought one from a friend of mine last fall.

I am not sure if the discussion was here or on Jan Stills forum, but there was a long discussion about circle S.

It is still unsure if the circle S equals Simson, although it is the best guess by Costanzo and others. Ed

Dwight Gruber · 01-22-2005, 01:09 PM

CircleS are very interesting and enigmatic guns.

I will go a little farther than my good friend Ed and note that there is no documentation which supports this mark as being associated with Simson.

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2005, 01:18 PM

Very true, and actually Dwight, I agree

My gut feeling is that I think it is more likely a police unit marking, more likely a marking for some specific unit and that is what they stamped on them...

Ed

guy sajer · 01-22-2005, 01:27 PM

Thank you gentlemen for the quick replies .

Again , I apologize for no photos . I would rate it about 95% plus arsenal reblue and about 100% straw . It has a black leather holster dated 1937 (hard to read , but looks like "G.J. Ensick & Co 1937" , black leather double mag pouch (no markings) . 3 wood bottom mags #977 , but stamped with different size stamps .

Will a "circle S" bring any more money than a common double date ? He's asking $1500 for all .

Thanks again .

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2005, 01:31 PM

Well I started to write no it won't, but I paid more for mine, because I wanted one!

But, three mags each, and they must be the 9xx you said for the serial number? If so, then 3 matching mags, well, it depends on if they appear to be arsenal or bubba jobs.

Lets go with arsenal, then yes, 3 matching mags, for a 95% gun is well worth it, the holster is free in my opinion...

guy sajer · 01-22-2005, 01:37 PM

Thanks Ed ! I will take another look and decide .

Any estimate on when the Luger "bring back" booklet will be available ?

Dwight Gruber · 01-22-2005, 01:59 PM

Mitch,

The holster sounds interesting. The three mags require close scrutiny. The CircleS brings a small premium.

--Dwight

guy sajer · 01-22-2005, 02:24 PM

Thanks Dwight ! The back of the holster is stamped with the same 4 digit number from the back of the frame .
It's faint , but appears to bear the WaA163 proof .

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by guy sajer
The back of the holster is stamped with the same 4 digit number from the back of the frame .

That is interesting, mine has a unit weapon number there too.

And on the booklet, well I am up to 86 pages, so about 35 stories, will keep collecting till I reach at least fifity, maybe more, although the publisher file I use (then print in Adobe) is over 129 megabytes...

guy sajer · 01-22-2005, 03:22 PM

Sounds good Ed . I would love to read it when completed .

Nice pic . This one is marked in the same manner as your's .

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2005, 03:38 PM

This is mine;

guy sajer · 01-22-2005, 03:46 PM

Yes , sir . That's the one .

Very nice !

01-22-2005, 01:18 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Very true, and actually Dwight, I agree My gut feeling is that I think it is more likely a police unit marking, more likely a marking for some specific unit and that is what they stamped on them... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-22-2005, 01:27 PM	#5
guy sajer User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you gentlemen for the quick replies . Again , I apologize for no photos . I would rate it about 95% plus arsenal reblue and about 100% straw . It has a black leather holster dated 1937 (hard to read , but looks like "G.J. Ensick & Co 1937" , black leather double mag pouch (no markings) . 3 wood bottom mags #977 , but stamped with different size stamps . Will a "circle S" bring any more money than a common double date ? He's asking $1500 for all . Thanks again . __________________ Mitch

01-22-2005, 01:31 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Well I started to write no it won't, but I paid more for mine, because I wanted one! But, three mags each, and they must be the 9xx you said for the serial number? If so, then 3 matching mags, well, it depends on if they appear to be arsenal or bubba jobs. Lets go with arsenal, then yes, 3 matching mags, for a 95% gun is well worth it, the holster is free in my opinion... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-22-2005, 01:37 PM	#7
guy sajer User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ed ! I will take another look and decide . Any estimate on when the Luger "bring back" booklet will be available ? __________________ Mitch

01-22-2005, 03:22 PM	#11
guy sajer User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sounds good Ed . I would love to read it when completed . Nice pic . This one is marked in the same manner as your's . __________________ Mitch

01-22-2005, 12:34 PM	#1
guy sajer User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Simson Police Rework ? Sorry I have no pics . I have been offered a DWM Luger represented as a Simson Police Rework . I'm not sure if it's "right" . Possibly you can give me a few tips on what to look for ? I will try to describe it as best I can . * DWM toggle , 1918 date with roughly stamped 1920 above it . * Serial 9xx k * "S" in a circle stamped LH side receiver in front of serial number . * All parts are numbered in the military style positions . * 4 digit number stamped rear of frame above lanyard attachment * sear safety intact * no police unit stamps on front strap * right side receiver proofs same as in Costanzo "World of Lugers" p293 1918 DWM example #127 * barrel proof Costanzo page 282 #2 RH side Other than the "circle S" , sear safety and the 4 digit number on back of frame , I see no other non-standard military markings . I realize it's tough to tell without visual inspection , but any opinions are appreciated . Thanks ! __________________ Mitch

01-22-2005, 12:47 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	mitch, I have some collected info on circle "S"'s, as I bought one from a friend of mine last fall. I am not sure if the discussion was here or on Jan Stills forum, but there was a long discussion about circle S. It is still unsure if the circle S equals Simson, although it is the best guess by Costanzo and others. Ed

01-22-2005, 01:09 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	CircleS are very interesting and enigmatic guns. I will go a little farther than my good friend Ed and note that there is no documentation which supports this mark as being associated with Simson. --Dwight

01-22-2005, 01:59 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Mitch, The holster sounds interesting. The three mags require close scrutiny. The CircleS brings a small premium. --Dwight

01-22-2005, 02:24 PM	#9
guy sajer User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Dwight ! The back of the holster is stamped with the same 4 digit number from the back of the frame . It's faint , but appears to bear the WaA163 proof . __________________ Mitch

01-22-2005, 03:38 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	This is mine; Attached Thumbnails

01-22-2005, 03:46 PM	#13
guy sajer User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes , sir . That's the one . Very nice ! __________________ Mitch