Yet another rarity....

Darth 44 · 03-03-2005, 01:22 PM

...that MIGHT have seen some limited use in WW1-
- Schwarzlose Standart Pistole Modell 1897.
It`s a fascinating pistol and very "hi-tech" for its time.

As I see it in ten points:
1) Caliber 7.63x25,pretty much the standard in pre-9mm years*- Good
2)The world`s 2nd semi-auto pistol fed from a 8 round magazine inserted into the grip -Good
3)The world`s 1st semi-auto pistol equipped with holdopen catch - V. Good
4)Consists of only 20 parts including four springs - Very Good
5)Thanks to grip located magazine and lack of toggle/spring assy, much handier than both the Borchardt and the C96 - Very Good
6)Short sight radius for a pistol of almost C96 size - Not so good
7)Sights prone to snagging - Bad
8)Heel located mag catch prone to be accidentally released - Bad
9)Breech locked by a 4-lug rotary bolt.Overdone for a handgun cartridge,
but undoubtedly strong = Good
10) Could be fitted with a detachable buttstock,a seldom used accesory
but... why not? - Good

So, having significantly more "Good"s than "Bad"s I`m now interested in some more info about the Modell 1897. Reliability, accuracy, internal built, pics, well...anything, as the above points cover all I know about this gun.

*Or was that 7.65x25 Borchardt....anyway,the same case for both rounds.

It`s really a pity that Andreas Schwarzlose`s workshop was too small to compete with firearms industry powers like Mauser or DWM.
There would be much more collectable 1897s around these days.

Regards

Ron Wood · 03-03-2005, 03:00 PM

I believe the Schwarzlose was 1896, contemporary with the C96 but without the marketing base. Three pistols I have always wanted to own but probably never will are the 1892 Schoenberger, the 1893 Bittner and the 1896 Schwarzlose. All monumental design pieces.

Schwarzlose's little 1908 blow-forward pistol is also neat little departure from the norm.

Compared to the Borchardt and the C96, the M96 Schwarzlose was a race car!

Darth 44 · 03-15-2005, 06:31 PM

Hello,
Sorry for the late response.

I`m a bit surprised(in plus) hearing that the Schwarzlose`s Standart Pistole is/was introduced a year earlier than I thought

"Three pistols I have always wanted to own but probably never will......."

Oh my!If I can share my wishes, the 3 pre-1908 pistols that I`d love to own would be:
1)Schwarzlose Standart Pistole Modell 1896(

)
2)Colt M 1902 *
3)FN M 1903*

*I think both of them could be adapted to shoot 9x19mm ammo although the 1903 would require short OAL & mild pressure loads IMO.

"Compared to the Borchardt and the C96, the M96 Schwarzlose was a race car"

Well said!!!
I wholeheartedly agree

RKBA!

Steve Richards · 03-15-2005, 09:28 PM

I know nothing about these so I did a web search and came up with this site: http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA17.html

It has a couple of good drawings and text about the pistol. They look very nice. Vaguely reminding me of a Steyer.

Steve

Darth 44 · 03-24-2005, 12:36 PM

WOOW!!

The link is great! Excellent info!
Exactly what I was looking for

Thank you Steve

RKBA !

03-03-2005, 01:22 PM	#1
Darth 44 User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yet another rarity.... ...that MIGHT have seen some limited use in WW1- - Schwarzlose Standart Pistole Modell 1897. It`s a fascinating pistol and very "hi-tech" for its time. As I see it in ten points: 1) Caliber 7.63x25,pretty much the standard in pre-9mm years- Good 2)The world`s 2nd semi-auto pistol fed from a 8 round magazine inserted into the grip -Good 3)The world`s 1st semi-auto pistol equipped with holdopen catch - V. Good 4)Consists of only 20 parts including four springs - Very Good 5)Thanks to grip located magazine and lack of toggle/spring assy, much handier than both the Borchardt and the C96 - Very Good 6)Short sight radius for a pistol of almost C96 size - Not so good 7)Sights prone to snagging - Bad 8)Heel located mag catch prone to be accidentally released - Bad 9)Breech locked by a 4-lug rotary bolt.Overdone for a handgun cartridge, but undoubtedly strong = Good 10) Could be fitted with a detachable buttstock,a seldom used accesory but... why not? - Good So, having significantly more "Good"s than "Bad"s I`m now interested in some more info about the Modell 1897. Reliability, accuracy, internal built, pics, well...anything, as the above points cover all I know about this gun. Or was that 7.65x25 Borchardt....anyway,the same case for both rounds. It`s really a pity that Andreas Schwarzlose`s workshop was too small to compete with firearms industry powers like Mauser or DWM. There would be much more collectable 1897s around these days. Regards

03-03-2005, 03:00 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	I believe the Schwarzlose was 1896, contemporary with the C96 but without the marketing base. Three pistols I have always wanted to own but probably never will are the 1892 Schoenberger, the 1893 Bittner and the 1896 Schwarzlose. All monumental design pieces. Schwarzlose's little 1908 blow-forward pistol is also neat little departure from the norm. Compared to the Borchardt and the C96, the M96 Schwarzlose was a race car! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-24-2005, 12:36 PM	#5
Darth 44 User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	WOOW!! The link is great! Excellent info! Exactly what I was looking for Thank you Steve RKBA ! __________________ "Americans have the right and advantages of being armed-unlike the citizens of the countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms" James Madison, The Federalist Papers

03-15-2005, 06:31 PM	#3
Darth 44 User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello, Sorry for the late response. I`m a bit surprised(in plus) hearing that the Schwarzlose`s Standart Pistole is/was introduced a year earlier than I thought "Three pistols I have always wanted to own but probably never will......." Oh my!If I can share my wishes, the 3 pre-1908 pistols that I`d love to own would be: 1)Schwarzlose Standart Pistole Modell 1896( ) 2)Colt M 1902 * 3)FN M 1903* *I think both of them could be adapted to shoot 9x19mm ammo although the 1903 would require short OAL & mild pressure loads IMO. "Compared to the Borchardt and the C96, the M96 Schwarzlose was a race car" Well said!!! I wholeheartedly agree RKBA!

03-15-2005, 09:28 PM	#4
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know nothing about these so I did a web search and came up with this site: http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA17.html It has a couple of good drawings and text about the pistol. They look very nice. Vaguely reminding me of a Steyer. Steve