One Test Luger & another possible Test Luger

Tony S. · 09-19-2005, 10:47 PM

I had the chance to examine several Lugers from a collection that may come up for sale in the very near future. The guns were left in an enclosed place but with high humidity. So needless to say, I spent most of the time cleaning all the Lugers (30 total). The owner left lots of gun oil on the gun before storing them back.
Anyway, I saw several 1900 AEs, but two of them without Ã¢??GermanyÃ¢?Â inscribed (one inside the Test Luger range). One is numbered 6323 and the other is 7959. Is the 7959 a Test Luger? I posted some pics for your review.
I also got the opportunity to inspect two 1936 Mauser Banner Siam (8Ã¢?Â barrel), one 1937 Mauser Banner Siam and a Variation 10, two digit dated Mauser Banner Comm. I will post pics later.
Thanks, Tony S.

Second gun:

Edward Tinker · 09-19-2005, 11:09 PM

Tony, did you read the write up that Jan Still wrote up on his forum? If not, then go and read it, it answered many questions I had.

http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=668

There is the possibility it is a test piece, towards the end of what is considered the highest (8,000) IF THEY WENT THAT HIGH...

30 Lugers, hopefully you cleaned one at a time, so you didn't mix parts!

Very cool and fun I am sure. Will this collector be selling so we might get a chance to see and hear how much?

Ed

Edward Tinker · 09-19-2005, 11:19 PM

Also, 6323 is on Ron Wood's listing...

drbuster · 09-20-2005, 12:10 AM

#6323 pictured above does not have the last two digits of the serial number on the right side of the take down lever and magazine catch. Does that mean it is not a test luger even though it is on Ron Wood's list? #7959 can be easily seen to have these serials in the commercial style, making it, technically NOT a test luger. Am I off base here, or are there exceptions in the #6000 range?

Dwight Gruber · 09-20-2005, 12:53 AM

Doc,

I was going to post the question, as to where the number is located on the takedown lever on 6362. Test Eagles are occasionally found mismatched due to their poor shape or parts cannibalization by the Gov't or Bannerman's. I see no cause for alarm about this pistol.

Now I'm going to jump ahead of myself a bit--

My own database, which includes the takedown lever number position when available, has an interesting pattern showing up. #7108, the penultimate gun in the Bannerman series, has the takedown numbered on its face. This is consistent in my examples (20 guns where the information is noted, out of 109 entries), up to #7742.

However, at serial# 7857, and going through the last entry at #7990 (16 guns recorded), the three numbers for which I have the takedown information are numbered -on the bottom edge-. This certainly looks like a trend to me.

I am of a mind, and certainly out on the far edge of the limb, to say that the -only- consistent characteristic of a Test Eagle is a 1900 AE without a GERMANY mark; and any 1900 AE without it, in proximity to the Bannerman sale numbers, is therefore most likely a Test Eagle.

I am sure that a lot of people aren't going to agree with me.

--Dwight

Ron Wood · 09-20-2005, 01:03 AM

(I was composing my reply as Dwight was posting his. I agree with him)

This 6323 is the second example of an "in range" Luger that I have recorded with the takedown numbered in the commercial style. I do not know if that is the way these Lugers were produced, or if the takedown is a replacement (which is what I suspect). Since they lack the GERMANY stamp, I would consider them Test Lugers. The magazine catch on a Test Luger is not numbered...off of the top of my head I believe that only the very early Swiss had a numbered magazine catch.

I have considered a distinguishing feature of "above the range" Test Lugers is the marking of the takedown lever on the left flat, a style that occurs on no other Luger until re-introduced in 1911 as the German military style marking. However, 7959 is also the second example of a possible "above the range" Test Luger that I have encountered not having a GERMANY marking but with the takedown lever numbered on the bottom in the commercial style. These examples occur at the upper end of the "above the range" serial numbers, so they may be another variation of the Test series or they may actually be commercial examples created from pieces left over from the contract production (or again, they may be replacement takedown levers - but the one on 7959 really looks like it belongs with the gun). For now I would side with them being Test Lugers, but who knows?

Tony S. · 09-20-2005, 10:48 PM

Thanks for every ones post. I learned something new everyday. Is it okay if I have left over parts after cleaning 30 guns? I guess this would be a very bad joke for the owner!
I do not know when he will be selling these guns. He has a collection of Nambus, Colts, long guns, and who knows what else. My self and his brother will be going through his stuff to help him catalog his collection. He is about 80 years old and has some medical issues that will require disposition of his collection to pay for medical bills. But, he knows that he collected for a reason, primary for enjoyment and lastly, investment.
Thanks, Tony S.
"SEMPER PARATUS"
P.S. Please, keep your prayers going, maybe we can make Rita disappear or just be downgraded to TS Rita. It looks like we are going to be extremely busy this weekend here in Texas. Just watch for the orange helicopter!

09-19-2005, 10:47 PM	#1
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One Test Luger & another possible Test Luger I had the chance to examine several Lugers from a collection that may come up for sale in the very near future. The guns were left in an enclosed place but with high humidity. So needless to say, I spent most of the time cleaning all the Lugers (30 total). The owner left lots of gun oil on the gun before storing them back. Anyway, I saw several 1900 AEs, but two of them without Ã¢??GermanyÃ¢?Â inscribed (one inside the Test Luger range). One is numbered 6323 and the other is 7959. Is the 7959 a Test Luger? I posted some pics for your review. I also got the opportunity to inspect two 1936 Mauser Banner Siam (8Ã¢?Â barrel), one 1937 Mauser Banner Siam and a Variation 10, two digit dated Mauser Banner Comm. I will post pics later. Thanks, Tony S. Second gun:

09-19-2005, 11:19 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Also, 6323 is on Ron Wood's listing... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-19-2005, 11:09 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Tony, did you read the write up that Jan Still wrote up on his forum? If not, then go and read it, it answered many questions I had. http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=668 There is the possibility it is a test piece, towards the end of what is considered the highest (8,000) IF THEY WENT THAT HIGH... 30 Lugers, hopefully you cleaned one at a time, so you didn't mix parts! Very cool and fun I am sure. Will this collector be selling so we might get a chance to see and hear how much? Ed

09-20-2005, 12:10 AM	#4
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	#6323 pictured above does not have the last two digits of the serial number on the right side of the take down lever and magazine catch. Does that mean it is not a test luger even though it is on Ron Wood's list? #7959 can be easily seen to have these serials in the commercial style, making it, technically NOT a test luger. Am I off base here, or are there exceptions in the #6000 range?

09-20-2005, 12:53 AM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Doc, I was going to post the question, as to where the number is located on the takedown lever on 6362. Test Eagles are occasionally found mismatched due to their poor shape or parts cannibalization by the Gov't or Bannerman's. I see no cause for alarm about this pistol. Now I'm going to jump ahead of myself a bit-- My own database, which includes the takedown lever number position when available, has an interesting pattern showing up. #7108, the penultimate gun in the Bannerman series, has the takedown numbered on its face. This is consistent in my examples (20 guns where the information is noted, out of 109 entries), up to #7742. However, at serial# 7857, and going through the last entry at #7990 (16 guns recorded), the three numbers for which I have the takedown information are numbered -on the bottom edge-. This certainly looks like a trend to me. I am of a mind, and certainly out on the far edge of the limb, to say that the -only- consistent characteristic of a Test Eagle is a 1900 AE without a GERMANY mark; and any 1900 AE without it, in proximity to the Bannerman sale numbers, is therefore most likely a Test Eagle. I am sure that a lot of people aren't going to agree with me. --Dwight

09-20-2005, 01:03 AM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	(I was composing my reply as Dwight was posting his. I agree with him) This 6323 is the second example of an "in range" Luger that I have recorded with the takedown numbered in the commercial style. I do not know if that is the way these Lugers were produced, or if the takedown is a replacement (which is what I suspect). Since they lack the GERMANY stamp, I would consider them Test Lugers. The magazine catch on a Test Luger is not numbered...off of the top of my head I believe that only the very early Swiss had a numbered magazine catch. I have considered a distinguishing feature of "above the range" Test Lugers is the marking of the takedown lever on the left flat, a style that occurs on no other Luger until re-introduced in 1911 as the German military style marking. However, 7959 is also the second example of a possible "above the range" Test Luger that I have encountered not having a GERMANY marking but with the takedown lever numbered on the bottom in the commercial style. These examples occur at the upper end of the "above the range" serial numbers, so they may be another variation of the Test series or they may actually be commercial examples created from pieces left over from the contract production (or again, they may be replacement takedown levers - but the one on 7959 really looks like it belongs with the gun). For now I would side with them being Test Lugers, but who knows? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-20-2005, 10:48 PM	#7
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for every ones post. I learned something new everyday. Is it okay if I have left over parts after cleaning 30 guns? I guess this would be a very bad joke for the owner! I do not know when he will be selling these guns. He has a collection of Nambus, Colts, long guns, and who knows what else. My self and his brother will be going through his stuff to help him catalog his collection. He is about 80 years old and has some medical issues that will require disposition of his collection to pay for medical bills. But, he knows that he collected for a reason, primary for enjoyment and lastly, investment. Thanks, Tony S. "SEMPER PARATUS" P.S. Please, keep your prayers going, maybe we can make Rita disappear or just be downgraded to TS Rita. It looks like we are going to be extremely busy this weekend here in Texas. Just watch for the orange helicopter!