Steve Anderson's Luger...

Pete Ebbink · 10-06-2005, 07:56 PM

Luger Forum member, Steve Anderson, would like some information and thoughts about his DWM Alphabet luger.

Here is some basic info :

1. DWM Alphabet luger.
2. Serial number 2765i.
3. 7,65 mm caliber with 4-3/4" barrel.
4. Has "Germany" stamped on front of frame.
5. Has old BUG proofs on underside of barrel. Bullet bore stamping and serial number not visible on barrel.
6. Has a Swiss cross/sunburst on chamber.
7. Has what appears to be a faint Crown/N proof on the left side of the receiver.
8. Does not have any little Swiss cross proofs or Bernerprobe proof marks, anywhere.
9. Falls in the middle of the Abercrombie & Fitch contract serials.
10. Barrel lug is not stamped "65".
11. Other small parts numbered "65" in commercial style.

Others on Jan's Board have commented on the long frame/receiver and the fact that the grip safety is not "65" stamped along the left side.

Pete Ebbink · 10-06-2005, 07:56 PM

drbuster · 10-06-2005, 09:19 PM

This Luger looks to me to be a mish-mash of parts. It has what looks like an early 1906 American Eagle frame (Germany stamped on front, flaming bomb proof in well), a commercial Swiss receiver and commercial barrel, and an un-numbered grip safety. It has a suffix on the front of the frame that looks like an "i", but I cant make out the dot on top. We all know about the post WW1 "i" series. It included DWM/Krieghoffs, all types of various Swiss commercials, and apparently just piece guns. I doubt that this Luger went to Switzerland as the grips and finish are too worn to be typical of those proud gun owners.

Pete Ebbink · 10-06-2005, 11:36 PM

Does anyone remember the timeframe/year that the vertical C/N proof began in use...?

drbuster · 10-07-2005, 12:00 AM

Pete, I believe, for the luger, it was some time in 1912. My 1908 commercial, serial #59055, has C/N proofs, and was made, I am told, in 1912.

Ron Wood · 10-07-2005, 12:14 AM

The "lazy" C/N proof began in 1906. The vertical C/N began in 1920.

Dwight Gruber · 10-07-2005, 04:12 AM

I thought the change in the German proof law from c/BUG to c/N was 1910? I understood that sometimes a skinny c/N was added to the c/BUG marks as a Nitro proof under the early law, on the side of the front toggle?

It will be interestng to know if the GERMANY mark overstamps the i suffix, also if the extractor says GELADEN or LOADED.

--Dwight

drbuster · 10-07-2005, 09:46 AM

Ron, I don't know where one can look up authoritarian data on this subject, but I think you are kind of early. And I also recall that Dwight's comment is correct. I don't know if the conversion from BUG to N came gradually in a transition or all at once, but it probably happened between 1910-1912. I would bet the extractor says Geladen.

Ron Wood · 10-07-2005, 12:45 PM

You guys are right. I tend to think in terms of model year and 1906 model Lugers are in the transition period, so some are BUG proofed and some are N proofed. Since the 1908 Commercial can also be found with either BUG or N proofs, obviously the change came after that date.

10-06-2005, 07:56 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Steve Anderson's Luger... Luger Forum member, Steve Anderson, would like some information and thoughts about his DWM Alphabet luger. Here is some basic info : 1. DWM Alphabet luger. 2. Serial number 2765i. 3. 7,65 mm caliber with 4-3/4" barrel. 4. Has "Germany" stamped on front of frame. 5. Has old BUG proofs on underside of barrel. Bullet bore stamping and serial number not visible on barrel. 6. Has a Swiss cross/sunburst on chamber. 7. Has what appears to be a faint Crown/N proof on the left side of the receiver. 8. Does not have any little Swiss cross proofs or Bernerprobe proof marks, anywhere. 9. Falls in the middle of the Abercrombie & Fitch contract serials. 10. Barrel lug is not stamped "65". 11. Other small parts numbered "65" in commercial style. Others on Jan's Board have commented on the long frame/receiver and the fact that the grip safety is not "65" stamped along the left side.

10-07-2005, 12:14 AM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	The "lazy" C/N proof began in 1906. The vertical C/N began in 1920. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-07-2005, 12:45 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	You guys are right. I tend to think in terms of model year and 1906 model Lugers are in the transition period, so some are BUG proofed and some are N proofed. Since the 1908 Commercial can also be found with either BUG or N proofs, obviously the change came after that date. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-06-2005, 09:19 PM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	This Luger looks to me to be a mish-mash of parts. It has what looks like an early 1906 American Eagle frame (Germany stamped on front, flaming bomb proof in well), a commercial Swiss receiver and commercial barrel, and an un-numbered grip safety. It has a suffix on the front of the frame that looks like an "i", but I cant make out the dot on top. We all know about the post WW1 "i" series. It included DWM/Krieghoffs, all types of various Swiss commercials, and apparently just piece guns. I doubt that this Luger went to Switzerland as the grips and finish are too worn to be typical of those proud gun owners.

10-06-2005, 11:36 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Does anyone remember the timeframe/year that the vertical C/N proof began in use...?

10-07-2005, 12:00 AM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Pete, I believe, for the luger, it was some time in 1912. My 1908 commercial, serial #59055, has C/N proofs, and was made, I am told, in 1912.

10-07-2005, 04:12 AM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	I thought the change in the German proof law from c/BUG to c/N was 1910? I understood that sometimes a skinny c/N was added to the c/BUG marks as a Nitro proof under the early law, on the side of the front toggle? It will be interestng to know if the GERMANY mark overstamps the i suffix, also if the extractor says GELADEN or LOADED. --Dwight

10-07-2005, 09:46 AM	#8
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Ron, I don't know where one can look up authoritarian data on this subject, but I think you are kind of early. And I also recall that Dwight's comment is correct. I don't know if the conversion from BUG to N came gradually in a transition or all at once, but it probably happened between 1910-1912. I would bet the extractor says Geladen.