Jamming Problems

[zinzan]

I bought a 1932 commercial Luger a month or so ago(first one). I used the reccomended ammunition, winchester 115 gr. Luger, and the pistol flipped every other round round out of the magazine and lodged it between the firing pin / extractor and the breech. I bought a new magazine and it didn't help a bit. I was told that I may need to install a new recoil spring. This would be great it it were the problem because it would be a cheep fix.

If there is anyone out there that has had the same problems drop me a line. I will not give up on this pistol.

Thankyou
Tim

[Edward Tinker]

Tim, welcome to the forum! I moved your request to the new collectors forum, as you posted in the Technical Help area.


Most folks will say to check the magazine first. What kind of new mag did you buy?

Ed

[zinzan]

I purchased a MEC-GAR Luger p08 magazine From Tom H. At the machineist hall gun show over the last weekend in St. Louis. He is the one that pointed out the potential problem with the recoil spring. I want to get this pistol up and shooting as soon as possible. If I have to replace the spring I will. The springs in these guns are not marked in any way are they? Can you tell if the spring is an original, second generation and so on?

I must say that when this gun fires it is easily the most accurate pistol on the range, which is why I am so frustrated that it is not feeding the ammo properly.

[Lugerdoc]

Zin, Sorry that new mag and Winchester ammo didn't improve your jamming problem. I should have mentioned at the show, to make sure that your wrist stays stiff on recoil. Surprisingly, that can make a difference. As I recall, your recoil spring has 20 coils which may be stronger than necessary, so you might want to consider cutting off a coil or two to see if that solves the problem. Also polishing the feed ramp and rear of the chamber couldn't hurt. Tom H.

[zinzan]

Thanks Tom

I will take it to the range today and try it.

[zinzan]

Here is the result of the range outing;

I need a new magazine becaues the Mec-Gar magazine is now broken. I loaded it with seven rounds, inserted it nto the pistol, and the plastic botton split and broke off. I have the spring, magazine and the broken plastic bottom piece.

I found that the difference between the remington and the winchester ammunition at first glance is the remington seats the bullet deeper into the brass than the winchester.

The remington ammunition caused less jamms

The most prevelant problem was with the feeding where the next round in the magazine is completly missed by the bolt and no round is chambered after firing. This happened with almost every firing with the Mec- Gar magazine before it broke and a few times with my old mag.

The jamming seems to occur after firing the initial round and the casing is ejected properly. The toggle begins to slide forward and the face of the bolt misses the back of the top round in the magazine. Instead it makes contact about 1/8th of an inch up, puts a dent in the brass and flips it straight up between the bolt and the barrel. I believe the jamming and the no load problem are linked. I still believe my problem may be a magazine flaw. If not then I would like to send it to a gunsmith.

The pistol is very touchy. Tom H. told me to shoot with a firm grip. This reduced the instance of jamming by %50.

Thankyou
Tim

[unspellable]

The Luger will generally like longer ammo better than shorter ammo.

If your recoil spring is a problem, it is far more likely to be because someone tinkered with it than becasue it is worn. There is a tendency for people to muck with the spring due to the urban legends surrounding the Luger when it would be far better to leave the spring alone. If you have, or suspect you have, a stock spring don't mess with it. If you are inclined to mess with a recoil spring, set the original to one side and get an after market spring to play with.

[Vlim]

Tim,

Also take a look at your magazine release catch. If it's badly worn, it won't hold the magazine in the right position, allowing it to hang in the pistol a little too low, thus creating feeding problems.

The big problem with recoil springs is that a spring which is too stiff will produce results that are similar to those of a spring which is too weak.

Indeed, contrary to what most say and think, the Luger likes long and spicey 9mm rounds. Winchester and Sellier & Bellot are the best commercially available rounds.

[G.T.]

Hi Zinzan, I can repair and IMPROVE your meg-gar mag. with the installation of a better mag. spring, new spring guide, and a stronger replacement bottom, alum. or wood like the P.08 orig., your choice... I have done several for some of the forum members, and to my knowledge, they have had pretty good results with this modification... it is a $50 cost including postage back to you, let me know if you wish this service.... some of the improved Meg-gar mag crowd might jump in here and inform us of the results of the modification, as I have not had any feedback for quite awhile... Best to you, and Hi to all! til....lat'r....GT

[zinzan]

G. van Vlimmeren

one of the first things I noticed when I first purchased this pistol is that there is a small ammount of play with the magazine when locked into place. I have looked at this spot a lot but I have no idea what to look for. Is there anything I can do as a novice to test this theory?

as always thank you for your time,

Tim Zenner
(Zinzan)

[John Sabato]

Yes... plant the pistol firmly in your non shooting hand and fire a magazine full with the magazine pushed firmly up into the highest position with the non shooting hand. If the magazine position is the issue, this should eliminate your jams...

If this cures your problem, then you either need a different magazine or a new mag catch...

[Johnny C. Kitchens]

I can vouch for the GT improved magazine. If the magazine spring is weak in any way it can cause a jam. The Luger action is very fast and the magazine spring has a tough job moving all of the rounds up fast enough to have the top round properly in place before the action starts to close. I had the same problem as you. The base broke out of the Mec-Gar magazine after a few uses. GT's aluminum base and special magazine spring will really give you an advantage over other magazines you can buy. I read an article from a few years ago about one of the nations top gunsmith who decided to see why the Luger jammed so much. His conclusion was the magazine, and especially the spring. He replaced it with the strongest spring he could stuff into the magazine. He could only load five rounds into the magazine, but it would not jam. Another reommendation, would be to thouroughly clean the gun, and properly lube it, if you havn't already. It is hard to do, but cleaning the inside of the magazine and properly lubing it might help out as well. I went from a Luger that would at its best only fire two rounds before jamming to one that jammed just once out of 120 rounds the last time I took it out...

[Curly1]

So the MecGar mags arent that good? I have seen several recommendations that thats the way to go.

[Sieger]

Hi:


Here are the variables, I've found, causing the infamous Luger jam (as described by you above):


Magazine spring is too weak to feed the round before the toggle starts to close (most likely cause).

Mainspring too strong for ammo used (if original, unmodified spiring, highly unlikely)!

Mainspring too weak, thus causing the toggle to bounce back too fast to allow the magazine to properly feed the next round (highly likely).

Ammo used is too short to properly feed at the Luger magazine's sharp angel (if springs are otherwise weak, this will be a highly likely cause).

Solution:

Have GT modify your magazines (including your original) with his new spring, etc.

A "new" late war Mauser Mainspring Spring is available from Tom H for around $15.00. If you are handy, its not hard to learn how to install these springs yourself.

General Comments:

According to the Inter-War Mauser P-08 Owner's Manual- ..."fill the magazine with 8 rounds". I really don't know how the 7 round maximum thing got started, though Stoeger did sell their stainless steel recreations, recently, as 7 rounders.

I have found the S&B 124 grain hardball to be a pretty accurate recreation of the original, later, German Army round. I just fired over 1,000 rounds of it through my byf 41 without one malfunction. You might want to try some of this. Personally, this is about the hottest round I want to fire in my late war Mauser. It's snappy alright, but not too hot for the original mainspring.

I would personally avoid the currently available Wolff mainsprings, as they look nothing like the original springs, and are a real pain in the ass to install.

I haven't found that holding the pistol in a special way does anything to stop jams. Obviously, you want to hold the pistol so that it doesn't jump out of your hand upon firing, but other than that....

Almost every DWM Luger I've seen has a magazine that hangs out about 1 mm from the frame. The parts are not worn, per my personal examination of several of them. Why there is this clearance, I can only guess. The metal on the magazine release button is of regular hardness, and should not fail with extensive usage.

I haven't found getting a Luger to shoot to be a difficult thing at all. It's really quite easy. It's all about the balance between the magazine and main springs. Concentrate your efforts here, and you will succeed!

Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally posted by Curly1
So the MecGar mags arent that good? I have seen several recommendations that thats the way to go.

They are the best currently available, and will usually function just fine with proper ammo.

Sieger