reblue?

edwood · 12-17-2004, 07:02 AM

I just picked up an 1903 colt pocket, and it looks like original blue. but is there a way to tell on antique guns if the blue is original?

Ron Smith · 12-17-2004, 10:55 AM

Ed,
Can you post some good clear photos? There are ways to tell, but hard to discribe to someone not atuned to notice. It's a matter of experience,and knowing what to look for.
The original blue on old Colts would appear to have a satin hue. The color is a deep rich blue. The roll marks on the slide should be deep and crisp. All sharp edges should be sharp and straight. Hold the pistol so that you can sight down the flat sides of the slide. The light should reflect a glass smooth plane, with no waves or ripples.
Also on a pistol that old. The sharp edges should show some slight wear. The grip straps may show slight patina (turning brown), or show some thinning of the blue.

Ron

marine kabar · 12-17-2004, 01:53 PM

Colt switched finishes several years after introduction of the 1903. The blue that Ron refers to sounds like the "later" finish. Early blue was brighter but not as durable.

It's very common to see those colt pocket pistols that have been refinished. Mine was made in 1918 and I think it was factory refinished at some point. It was beautifully done but it took it's toll on the crispness of the markings. In particular, the markings on the side that show the caliber, being relatively lightly struck, are the ones to most dramatically show the signs of refinshing.

Enjoy your little Colt. I love 'em but I sure don't enjoy field stripping them....it's a real pain in the rear to disassemble them :-)

Greg

lugerholsterrepair · 12-17-2004, 03:33 PM

Ed, Both Ron and Greg have given excellent advice. These pistols made by Colt have a beautiful blue and it should be evident if you are familiar with Colt finishes. If it is anything less than beautiful it may be a refinish.

Greg, I don't understand;
Enjoy your little Colt. I love 'em but I sure don't enjoy field stripping them....it's a real pain in the rear to disassemble them :-)

These fall apart as easily as the Luger....John Browning was a genius and he made these extreamly easy to disasemble. Jerry Burney

marine kabar · 12-17-2004, 04:22 PM

I guess it's just me. I had the same problem with the Browning designed FN Model 1910 .380. It disassembled the same way and I always found it awkward but being a big fan of John Browning pistols I'm quick to admit all his pistols are beautifully engineered and field strip without tools. I've detailed stripped the Colt 1911 and in my opinion, this was his best design.

My Colt 1903 .32ACP has a beautiful blue finish but it's not the original.

Greg

lugerholsterrepair · 12-17-2004, 04:39 PM

Greg, I have about a half dozen or more of the 1903-1908 pocket auto's. Have one that is 98% and it has a beautiful Colt blue.

Do you have the instruction sheet that came in the box? It has a really simple instructions for disasembly and shows how to hold the slide back to line up the arrow.
Jerry Burney

marine kabar · 12-17-2004, 04:46 PM

Jerry

Yeah...I got it and it seems simple enough but the two times I've field stripped my Colt it's managed to hang up while either disassembling or assembling. One problem I have is the spring kinks and locks the slide from coming off the frame. Like I said, it's probably just me. I've field stripped the M1911A1 blindfolded but I'd sure hate to do that with my Colt .32.

Greg

edwood · 12-17-2004, 04:53 PM

the front grip and back strap have thinning of the blueing, the finish is mirror like when looked at an angle.the sharp edges in some places have worn some of the blueing but many are very nice yet.on the slid there is some very minor freckling.you really need to be looking for it. the mag looks original but not two tone, has cal 32 colt on bottom of clip
how do I post pictures?

marine kabar · 12-17-2004, 05:27 PM

Here's a pic of mine. The grips are too early for a 1918 pistol but they're original factory and not easy to replace. I got lucky and found an original spare mag at a good price. Later version than my pistol but I can live with that. And I found a copy of Brunner's book. Excellent reference on these pistols.

edwood · 12-17-2004, 11:12 PM

here are some photos of the gun, any help on blueing appreciated

marine kabar · 12-18-2004, 06:40 AM

Edwood

What's that serial number? If I have it I can provide some info on your pistol. From the pics the magazine looks like the one made fully blued without the "two tone". Those were made between 1938 and 1940.

Greg

edwood · 12-18-2004, 08:47 AM

<a href="http://img160.exs.cx/img160/2813/co3lq.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://img160.exs.cx/img160/2813/co3lq.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

thanks serail no is 283512

edwood · 12-18-2004, 08:49 AM

one other thing the left side grip looks to have a brown cast to it where the right side has a black cast, the inside looks the same on both, can time in a drware or box do this to the grips? the serial no is 283512

marine kabar · 12-18-2004, 09:18 AM

Edwood

OK...yours was made in 1920 and it has the correct style grips. There were several variations of these. But you do need the "two tone" magazine with the early feedlips and large font (3/32" instead of 1/8")CAL 32 COLT markings on the base plate. The grips were hard rubber and I suppose they could get discolored but have never seen that before.

Greg

Ron Smith · 12-18-2004, 09:22 AM

Ed,
My vote would be that it's the original blue.
Cameras make patina(browning) stand out. The grip strap in your photo, bears this out. Looks like a nice honest 1903. Neat little pistols.And getting harder to find in nice condition.

The grip fading is caused by exposure to sunlight. Or some other source of UV rays. Which leached the pigment of the early plastic material.

Ron

marine kabar · 12-18-2004, 10:20 AM

Yeah....I agree re the blue finish. And since those grips were made of hard natural rubber it's not hard to imagine them being affected by sunlight. BTW...those original grips are near impossible to find and replicas are all over the place, many sold as "originals". My pistol came with staghorn grips which are beautiful but impractical and I had a heck of a time finding originals.

Greg

Ron Smith · 12-18-2004, 11:34 AM

Greg,
I'm a sucker for stag grips. Do you still have them? If so would you you consider selling them?
Thanks, Ron

edwood · 12-18-2004, 11:46 AM

thanks, as long as the mag is original colt, I am not to worried, I have the two tone in my other pocket, it is a shooter so I can trade mags with it,

marine kabar · 12-18-2004, 02:56 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ron Smith:
Greg,
I'm a sucker for stag grips. Do you still have them? If so would you you consider selling them?
Thanks, Ron<hr /></blockquote>Ron,

Cute aren't they?

I was going to sell them but my wife pitched a fit!!! Said that was HER pistol (of course I paid for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )and I'd best not sell those pretty stag grips. Women!!!!

Greg

Ron Smith · 12-18-2004, 05:44 PM

No problem. Just thought I would ask.

Thanks, Ron

12-17-2004, 07:02 AM	#1
edwood User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	reblue? I just picked up an 1903 colt pocket, and it looks like original blue. but is there a way to tell on antique guns if the blue is original?

12-17-2004, 10:55 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Ed, Can you post some good clear photos? There are ways to tell, but hard to discribe to someone not atuned to notice. It's a matter of experience,and knowing what to look for. The original blue on old Colts would appear to have a satin hue. The color is a deep rich blue. The roll marks on the slide should be deep and crisp. All sharp edges should be sharp and straight. Hold the pistol so that you can sight down the flat sides of the slide. The light should reflect a glass smooth plane, with no waves or ripples. Also on a pistol that old. The sharp edges should show some slight wear. The grip straps may show slight patina (turning brown), or show some thinning of the blue. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

12-17-2004, 03:33 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Ed, Both Ron and Greg have given excellent advice. These pistols made by Colt have a beautiful blue and it should be evident if you are familiar with Colt finishes. If it is anything less than beautiful it may be a refinish. Greg, I don't understand; Enjoy your little Colt. I love 'em but I sure don't enjoy field stripping them....it's a real pain in the rear to disassemble them :-) These fall apart as easily as the Luger....John Browning was a genius and he made these extreamly easy to disasemble. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-17-2004, 04:39 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Greg, I have about a half dozen or more of the 1903-1908 pocket auto's. Have one that is 98% and it has a beautiful Colt blue. Do you have the instruction sheet that came in the box? It has a really simple instructions for disasembly and shows how to hold the slide back to line up the arrow. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-18-2004, 09:22 AM	#15
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Ed, My vote would be that it's the original blue. Cameras make patina(browning) stand out. The grip strap in your photo, bears this out. Looks like a nice honest 1903. Neat little pistols.And getting harder to find in nice condition. The grip fading is caused by exposure to sunlight. Or some other source of UV rays. Which leached the pigment of the early plastic material. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

12-17-2004, 01:53 PM	#3
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Colt switched finishes several years after introduction of the 1903. The blue that Ron refers to sounds like the "later" finish. Early blue was brighter but not as durable. It's very common to see those colt pocket pistols that have been refinished. Mine was made in 1918 and I think it was factory refinished at some point. It was beautifully done but it took it's toll on the crispness of the markings. In particular, the markings on the side that show the caliber, being relatively lightly struck, are the ones to most dramatically show the signs of refinshing. Enjoy your little Colt. I love 'em but I sure don't enjoy field stripping them....it's a real pain in the rear to disassemble them :-) Greg

12-17-2004, 04:22 PM	#5
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I guess it's just me. I had the same problem with the Browning designed FN Model 1910 .380. It disassembled the same way and I always found it awkward but being a big fan of John Browning pistols I'm quick to admit all his pistols are beautifully engineered and field strip without tools. I've detailed stripped the Colt 1911 and in my opinion, this was his best design. My Colt 1903 .32ACP has a beautiful blue finish but it's not the original. Greg

12-17-2004, 04:46 PM	#7
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerry Yeah...I got it and it seems simple enough but the two times I've field stripped my Colt it's managed to hang up while either disassembling or assembling. One problem I have is the spring kinks and locks the slide from coming off the frame. Like I said, it's probably just me. I've field stripped the M1911A1 blindfolded but I'd sure hate to do that with my Colt .32. Greg

12-17-2004, 04:53 PM	#8
edwood User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the front grip and back strap have thinning of the blueing, the finish is mirror like when looked at an angle.the sharp edges in some places have worn some of the blueing but many are very nice yet.on the slid there is some very minor freckling.you really need to be looking for it. the mag looks original but not two tone, has cal 32 colt on bottom of clip how do I post pictures?

12-17-2004, 05:27 PM	#9
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's a pic of mine. The grips are too early for a 1918 pistol but they're original factory and not easy to replace. I got lucky and found an original spare mag at a good price. Later version than my pistol but I can live with that. And I found a copy of Brunner's book. Excellent reference on these pistols.

12-17-2004, 11:12 PM	#10
edwood User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	here are some photos of the gun, any help on blueing appreciated

12-18-2004, 06:40 AM	#11
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Edwood What's that serial number? If I have it I can provide some info on your pistol. From the pics the magazine looks like the one made fully blued without the "two tone". Those were made between 1938 and 1940. Greg

12-18-2004, 08:47 AM	#12
edwood User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	<a href="http://img160.exs.cx/img160/2813/co3lq.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://img160.exs.cx/img160/2813/co3lq.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> thanks serail no is 283512

12-18-2004, 08:49 AM	#13
edwood User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	one other thing the left side grip looks to have a brown cast to it where the right side has a black cast, the inside looks the same on both, can time in a drware or box do this to the grips? the serial no is 283512

12-18-2004, 09:18 AM	#14
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Edwood OK...yours was made in 1920 and it has the correct style grips. There were several variations of these. But you do need the "two tone" magazine with the early feedlips and large font (3/32" instead of 1/8")CAL 32 COLT markings on the base plate. The grips were hard rubber and I suppose they could get discolored but have never seen that before. Greg

12-18-2004, 10:20 AM	#16
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yeah....I agree re the blue finish. And since those grips were made of hard natural rubber it's not hard to imagine them being affected by sunlight. BTW...those original grips are near impossible to find and replicas are all over the place, many sold as "originals". My pistol came with staghorn grips which are beautiful but impractical and I had a heck of a time finding originals. Greg

12-18-2004, 11:34 AM	#17
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Greg, I'm a sucker for stag grips. Do you still have them? If so would you you consider selling them? Thanks, Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

12-18-2004, 11:46 AM	#18
edwood User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thanks, as long as the mag is original colt, I am not to worried, I have the two tone in my other pocket, it is a shooter so I can trade mags with it,

12-18-2004, 02:56 PM	#19
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Ron Smith: <strong>Greg, I'm a sucker for stag grips. Do you still have them? If so would you you consider selling them? Thanks, Ron</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Ron, Cute aren't they? I was going to sell them but my wife pitched a fit!!! Said that was HER pistol (of course I paid for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )and I'd best not sell those pretty stag grips. Women!!!! Greg

12-18-2004, 05:44 PM	#20
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	No problem. Just thought I would ask. Thanks, Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...