American eagle with odd Stoeger marking

Jamka · 01-30-2005, 09:32 AM

On the German auction site eGun.de I have seen a very strange American eagle.

This Luger has been reblued, and somehow the trigger and the safety were left as strawed, but the take down lever and the magazine catch are now glossy black - blue.

It has the Eagle on the chamber:

But look at the left side of the receiver - this is a STOEGER !

Has anyone of you seen this marking on this spot before??
The price is low, so I intend to bid to buy it as a shooter. Must be fun to use an AE to hit the target here at my club

mauro · 01-30-2005, 10:25 AM

Hello Joop,
As far as I know the first contract between DWM and Stoeger was signed around 1923. The first pistols were military surplus with the serial number that follows the military pattern. The serial number was implemented following commercial rules. The A.F. Stoeger Inc. New York appears on the right side of the receiver.

The pistol you show is very odd.

In fact it doesnÃ¢??t match at all the previous description.
I think this pistol adequate for firing purposes.
Ciao
Mauro

Lugerdoc · 01-30-2005, 11:42 AM

Perhap this "Stoerger" is a product of the same workshop that produced the side marked "Kreighoffs". See Gibson's "The Kreighoff Parabellum" pages 140-144. TH

Jamka · 01-30-2005, 03:14 PM

Paolo, Tom,

Good to note that you both agree that this an attempt (recent or in the past) to raise some extra money out of this Luger. It is heartwarming for us collectors to see that the contrary is achieved.

Thank you both for your comments!

Heinz · 01-30-2005, 09:05 PM

Wafenampt USA now has a European branch??

Vlim · 01-31-2005, 01:31 PM

Hi Joop,

Interesting item. And indeed, perhaps AWM now has a sub-branch called BWM (Belgische Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken

)

Jamka · 01-31-2005, 05:10 PM

Heinz & Gerben,

Yesterday this 'Stoeger' went out on eGun after a quick final ralley for $ 950.-. That is a lot of money for a reblued fake Stoeger. I liked to buy it for $ 300.-, it was steady at that price during a full week.
I am sure we will see it back soon somewhere, for sale again...

Gerben, eGun is in Germany. So it should be GWM, don't you think?

Vlim · 02-01-2005, 05:24 PM

Joop,

Haha. Perhaps DWM went back into the old business once more

If you want to have a good laugh, check out this site and tell me what you miss there:

http://www.iwka.de/group/historie_de.html?myLevel=_0.3

(the answer is the name 'DWM').

Jamka · 02-01-2005, 05:41 PM

Gerben,

This is indeed a very interesting piece of misinformation, or should I say 'denial of the past' ...

Apart from mentioning the brass in the first sentence (patronenhÃ?Â¼lzen), all armament activities of DWM during WWI are simply 'forgotten'. (1910 - 1919). And in Karlsruhe they produced thousands of tons ammunition also for WWII.

But, they do not know that thousands of collectors will always recognize the buildings of DWM, they so proudly display on top of this socalled history.

Thanks for showing me this.

Vlim · 02-01-2005, 06:10 PM

Joop,

I already thought you'd like it. Also note the similarity between the 'old' DWM-logo I use as an avatar and the current IWKA logo. The curves, also known from the Mauser logo, are still in use.

They do still hold the copyright on a lot of information. I bought a DWM 'Parabellum' manual reprint a few years ago which had an interesting line on the back:

"Nachdruck mit freundlicher genehmigung der Firma IWK Karlsruhe..."

The Berlin-part of DWM was renamed VWW (Vereinigte Werkstatten Wittenau) just after WW2, then renamed back to DWM, but as 'Deutsche Waggon- und Maschinenfabriken", which reintroduced the pre-WW2 DWM logo. This company mainly produced heavy equiment and railroad equipment. It was later sold to Daimler-Benz Transport, became known as part of 'AdTranz' and is now part of Bombardier Transport.

The original Karlsruhe production site still exists and is now a cultural center. The Berlin Borsigwalde/Martinikenfelde site is now home of the Berlin State archive. It's pretty amazing that both plants survived WW2 without much damage.

01-30-2005, 09:32 AM	#1
Jamka RIP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Antwerp Belgium Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	American eagle with odd Stoeger marking On the German auction site eGun.de I have seen a very strange American eagle. This Luger has been reblued, and somehow the trigger and the safety were left as strawed, but the take down lever and the magazine catch are now glossy black - blue. It has the Eagle on the chamber: But look at the left side of the receiver - this is a STOEGER ! Has anyone of you seen this marking on this spot before?? The price is low, so I intend to bid to buy it as a shooter. Must be fun to use an AE to hit the target here at my club __________________ Joop

01-30-2005, 10:25 AM	#2
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Joop, As far as I know the first contract between DWM and Stoeger was signed around 1923. The first pistols were military surplus with the serial number that follows the military pattern. The serial number was implemented following commercial rules. The A.F. Stoeger Inc. New York appears on the right side of the receiver. The pistol you show is very odd. In fact it doesnÃ¢??t match at all the previous description. I think this pistol adequate for firing purposes. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

01-30-2005, 11:42 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Perhap this "Stoerger" is a product of the same workshop that produced the side marked "Kreighoffs". See Gibson's "The Kreighoff Parabellum" pages 140-144. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

01-30-2005, 03:14 PM	#4
Jamka RIP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Antwerp Belgium Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Paolo, Tom, Good to note that you both agree that this an attempt (recent or in the past) to raise some extra money out of this Luger. It is heartwarming for us collectors to see that the contrary is achieved. Thank you both for your comments! __________________ Joop

01-31-2005, 05:10 PM	#7
Jamka RIP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Antwerp Belgium Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Heinz & Gerben, Yesterday this 'Stoeger' went out on eGun after a quick final ralley for $ 950.-. That is a lot of money for a reblued fake Stoeger. I liked to buy it for $ 300.-, it was steady at that price during a full week. I am sure we will see it back soon somewhere, for sale again... Gerben, eGun is in Germany. So it should be GWM, don't you think? __________________ Joop

01-30-2005, 09:05 PM	#5
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Wafenampt USA now has a European branch??

01-31-2005, 01:31 PM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Joop, Interesting item. And indeed, perhaps AWM now has a sub-branch called BWM (Belgische Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken )

02-01-2005, 05:24 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Joop, Haha. Perhaps DWM went back into the old business once more If you want to have a good laugh, check out this site and tell me what you miss there: http://www.iwka.de/group/historie_de.html?myLevel=_0.3 (the answer is the name 'DWM').

02-01-2005, 05:41 PM	#9
Jamka RIP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Antwerp Belgium Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Gerben, This is indeed a very interesting piece of misinformation, or should I say 'denial of the past' ... Apart from mentioning the brass in the first sentence (patronenhÃ?Â¼lzen), all armament activities of DWM during WWI are simply 'forgotten'. (1910 - 1919). And in Karlsruhe they produced thousands of tons ammunition also for WWII. But, they do not know that thousands of collectors will always recognize the buildings of DWM, they so proudly display on top of this socalled history. Thanks for showing me this. __________________ Joop

02-01-2005, 06:10 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Joop, I already thought you'd like it. Also note the similarity between the 'old' DWM-logo I use as an avatar and the current IWKA logo. The curves, also known from the Mauser logo, are still in use. They do still hold the copyright on a lot of information. I bought a DWM 'Parabellum' manual reprint a few years ago which had an interesting line on the back: "Nachdruck mit freundlicher genehmigung der Firma IWK Karlsruhe..." The Berlin-part of DWM was renamed VWW (Vereinigte Werkstatten Wittenau) just after WW2, then renamed back to DWM, but as 'Deutsche Waggon- und Maschinenfabriken", which reintroduced the pre-WW2 DWM logo. This company mainly produced heavy equiment and railroad equipment. It was later sold to Daimler-Benz Transport, became known as part of 'AdTranz' and is now part of Bombardier Transport. The original Karlsruhe production site still exists and is now a cultural center. The Berlin Borsigwalde/Martinikenfelde site is now home of the Berlin State archive. It's pretty amazing that both plants survived WW2 without much damage.