Viewed the 1902 AE fat barrel today.

Doug G. · 08-21-2005, 01:09 AM

Well good as his word the guy showed up at my table at 10AM. I took the gun out of a homemade presentation case. At a cursory glance it did indeed look to be about 80%+ finish. Serial number was in correct 27,000 range. Shined it good with my Sure fire flashlight. Did not have much of a reddish hue, as I would have expected. This made me suspicious of an old reblue. Sure enough not one single "halo" on any numbers, Germany or on the AE logo. Grips safety spring was missing, and main spring was bad. Left grip had a chip and was only marked with an * as was the right grip. Was sorry to inform them that the gun only rated a 50-60% rating in my book. They were still thinking it is worth in the $4000 range! I told them good luck!

It went down hill from there!

Front strap in the gray.

Back strap not much better.

Edward Tinker · 08-21-2005, 01:25 AM

Doug, I sure don't know, it is a nice looking gun, I'd love to own it, maybe not for 4k, but one to own at some point

Dwight Gruber · 08-21-2005, 02:42 AM

How was the milled area under the thumb safety letter?

--Dwight

Doug G. · 08-21-2005, 08:43 AM

As I recall it did not have a in the white area under the safety lever.

drbuster · 08-21-2005, 10:55 AM

Doug G., Thanks for posting pictures of this AE 1902. The asterisk, as I have learned from Ralph Shattuck, Mike Krause, and others is indeed correct for 1902 AE grips. The overall condition is indeed as you describe. We have to keep in mind that only about 500-600 of these were made. Fat barrels are rare guns! The most disturbing thing is whether the area under the safety lever is polished or not. To be original, it HAS to be polished! That said, the $4-5K price is about correct for a dealers BUYING price. Check around and see if you can find a dealer's SELLING price under $5-6K, assuming the piece is in somewhat decent condition.

hqbmw · 08-28-2005, 08:40 PM

Doug, excuse my ignrance, but what do you mean by "halo" on the numbers?

Doug G. · 08-28-2005, 09:35 PM

Here is a good example of the "halo" effect on a Luger.

hqbmw · 08-28-2005, 09:47 PM

Thanks, Doug, I thought that would be what you ment, but wanted to make certain. I find it hard to believe that was my first actual port as I have been reading on a daily basis The Forum and benefition gratly for about 4 months.

Thanks everyone of you.

Jack

Edward Tinker · 08-29-2005, 12:40 AM

Jack, then let me welcome you to the forum!

And remember, you might be a member for years like Doug or me, and still come across something we simply don't know (at least me, some of these guys knows almost everything

)!

Ed

hqbmw · 08-29-2005, 01:10 AM

Thanks Ed, I never hesitate to ask stupid questions!

Jack

Navy · 08-29-2005, 08:08 AM

Hmmm,

I am interested in that gun. How cna I contact the owner?

Tom A.

Big Norm · 09-06-2005, 05:11 AM

Doug G,
I am not questioning your opinion of this Luger, but, as I have often stated here, one of the first things that I look at is the condition of the Locking Bolt. The Locking Bolt on this gun appears to be perfectly flat with very nice beveled edges. Almost in too good a condition considering the condition of the rest of the gun. Could this be a replacement? If some restorer redid this gun, I would expect some rounding of the flat surface and the absence of beveled edges. At least some dings in it.

Big Norm

Doug G. · 09-06-2005, 11:13 AM

Norm, I cannot say if the straw was redone or not. The locking bolt was numbered to the gun. Contrary to the pics, there is about 10% straw left. My thoughts are an old rust reblue done by someone like Ted who is a craftsman. I am basing my decision that the gun has been refinished at some time from two facts. Firstly there is a lack of a halo on any markings. Secondly with a strong light the reddish patina is very thin compared to my other 1900's.

Ron Wood · 09-15-2005, 02:21 AM

I have been thinking over this gun for a few days now. In my experience, it looks correct. On this model, there will not be any halo around the numbers and markings, and barrel proofs (if there are any...and there may not be any, which is also correct) and bore diameter markings will be very weak. The flat appearance of the takedown lever is correct, so if it was refinished whoever did it was pretty sharp.

There were not a lot of these American Eagle and Commercial 1902 Lugers made...they are almost in the "prototype" category, so apparently the finish of these examples departs significantly from the guns that precede and follow their production.

The thing that bothers me is the statement that the serial number was "in correct 27,000 range". That is way too high for a 1902. It is hard to tell from the picture but it looks like it is in the 23,000 range, which is OK.

08-21-2005, 01:09 AM	#1
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Viewed the 1902 AE fat barrel today. Well good as his word the guy showed up at my table at 10AM. I took the gun out of a homemade presentation case. At a cursory glance it did indeed look to be about 80%+ finish. Serial number was in correct 27,000 range. Shined it good with my Sure fire flashlight. Did not have much of a reddish hue, as I would have expected. This made me suspicious of an old reblue. Sure enough not one single "halo" on any numbers, Germany or on the AE logo. Grips safety spring was missing, and main spring was bad. Left grip had a chip and was only marked with an * as was the right grip. Was sorry to inform them that the gun only rated a 50-60% rating in my book. They were still thinking it is worth in the $4000 range! I told them good luck! It went down hill from there! Front strap in the gray. Back strap not much better.

08-28-2005, 08:40 PM	#6
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Doug, excuse my ignrance, but what do you mean by "halo" on the numbers? __________________ Jack Hiles Mesa AZ

08-28-2005, 09:47 PM	#8
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, Doug, I thought that would be what you ment, but wanted to make certain. I find it hard to believe that was my first actual port as I have been reading on a daily basis The Forum and benefition gratly for about 4 months. Thanks everyone of you. Jack __________________ Jack Hiles Mesa AZ

08-29-2005, 01:10 AM	#10
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ed, I never hesitate to ask stupid questions! Jack __________________ Jack Hiles Mesa AZ

09-15-2005, 02:21 AM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	I have been thinking over this gun for a few days now. In my experience, it looks correct. On this model, there will not be any halo around the numbers and markings, and barrel proofs (if there are any...and there may not be any, which is also correct) and bore diameter markings will be very weak. The flat appearance of the takedown lever is correct, so if it was refinished whoever did it was pretty sharp. There were not a lot of these American Eagle and Commercial 1902 Lugers made...they are almost in the "prototype" category, so apparently the finish of these examples departs significantly from the guns that precede and follow their production. The thing that bothers me is the statement that the serial number was "in correct 27,000 range". That is way too high for a 1902. It is hard to tell from the picture but it looks like it is in the 23,000 range, which is OK. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-21-2005, 01:25 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Doug, I sure don't know, it is a nice looking gun, I'd love to own it, maybe not for 4k, but one to own at some point

08-21-2005, 02:42 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	How was the milled area under the thumb safety letter? --Dwight

08-21-2005, 08:43 AM	#4
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	As I recall it did not have a in the white area under the safety lever.

08-21-2005, 10:55 AM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Doug G., Thanks for posting pictures of this AE 1902. The asterisk, as I have learned from Ralph Shattuck, Mike Krause, and others is indeed correct for 1902 AE grips. The overall condition is indeed as you describe. We have to keep in mind that only about 500-600 of these were made. Fat barrels are rare guns! The most disturbing thing is whether the area under the safety lever is polished or not. To be original, it HAS to be polished! That said, the $4-5K price is about correct for a dealers BUYING price. Check around and see if you can find a dealer's SELLING price under $5-6K, assuming the piece is in somewhat decent condition.

08-28-2005, 09:35 PM	#7
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Here is a good example of the "halo" effect on a Luger.

08-29-2005, 12:40 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Jack, then let me welcome you to the forum! And remember, you might be a member for years like Doug or me, and still come across something we simply don't know (at least me, some of these guys knows almost everything )! Ed

08-29-2005, 08:08 AM	#11
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hmmm, I am interested in that gun. How cna I contact the owner? Tom A.

09-06-2005, 05:11 AM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Doug G, I am not questioning your opinion of this Luger, but, as I have often stated here, one of the first things that I look at is the condition of the Locking Bolt. The Locking Bolt on this gun appears to be perfectly flat with very nice beveled edges. Almost in too good a condition considering the condition of the rest of the gun. Could this be a replacement? If some restorer redid this gun, I would expect some rounding of the flat surface and the absence of beveled edges. At least some dings in it. Big Norm

09-06-2005, 11:13 AM	#13
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Norm, I cannot say if the straw was redone or not. The locking bolt was numbered to the gun. Contrary to the pics, there is about 10% straw left. My thoughts are an old rust reblue done by someone like Ted who is a craftsman. I am basing my decision that the gun has been refinished at some time from two facts. Firstly there is a lack of a halo on any markings. Secondly with a strong light the reddish patina is very thin compared to my other 1900's.