1920's DWM Commercial RC?

Denny347 · 09-30-2005, 01:58 AM

A local shop has an all matching DWM 1920's commercial for sale with 2 matching mag for 790.00. It has Germany printed on front below barrel and I noticed a large X on the left side of the frame. The bluing is nice 80-90%. The X got me confused. Could this be a Russian captured piece even though it is a commercial model? I'm thinking about picking it up but I think 790.00 might be a tad high unless it is all original but Lugers in Indianapolis are hard to come by and they are priced accordingly.

Dwight Gruber · 09-30-2005, 02:46 AM

Denny,

What is the caliber? What are the proof marks on the gun? What is the serial number, with letter suffix if there is one?

What are the magazine bases made of? If it is truly a commercial Luger they should be made out of wood and be unmarked (or they might be marked GERMANY).

Too many unknowns at the moment.

Will they let you take pictures to post here?

--Dwight

Denny347 · 09-30-2005, 09:33 AM

They are buddy's of mine so I plan on going over there to take a closer look. I was going to write down as much info as I can. I'll see about the pics but I might have to do without those.

Denny347 · 10-01-2005, 10:28 AM

Serial num 7961 with no letters. All numbers match even the 2 magazines. The magazines are not wooden, the base looks like a bare matal. It has been re-blued and has a large X stamped on the left side of the frame. On the underside of the barrel there is a very small proof that looks like a crown with a letter below it...W? Same proof is on the left side of the frame. The extractor has an electro-pencil number on it that does not match the pistol. It looks like there was an import stamp on the front of the grip but someone tried to remove it. Enought of the stamp is gone that I cannot tell who the importer was. No wartime German proofs are present. I was wrong, there is no Germany on the front below the barrel...it is just the serial number. Does not look like a wartime Luger so how did it become a Russian capture? Still debating wether it is worth the price or not.

Denny347 · 10-01-2005, 10:32 AM

Also, it's a 9mm and I was not able to get pics.

Edward Tinker · 10-01-2005, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Denny347
Serial num 7961 with no letters. All numbers match even the 2 magazines. The magazines are not wooden, the base looks like a bare matal. Does not look like a wartime Luger so how did it become a Russian capture? Still debating wether it is worth the price or not.

Why do you think it does not look military?

It has military (exposed) serial numbering, is 9mm, it has serial number on the magazines

It was a russian capture, so was used in war (and there were commerical lugers used in war).

Price is a bit high for a "shooter", however, you could sell one mag for around $75-$100, so ... Although that would be a shame, unless it is obvious that it is a forced match.

So, although high, it "might" make for an interesting set.

ed

Dwight Gruber · 10-01-2005, 01:05 PM

Denny,

So far this gun's identity is pretty ambiguous. The lack of a letter suffix on the frame serial number and the c/N proofs on a 9mm Luger with no GERMANY stamp, along with your other new information, prompts additional questions.

Are there any marks on the barrel in addition to the c/N--a serial number, a number like 8,82 ?

Is there a serial numbers stamped on the bottom surface of the recoil lug? Is the serial number (last two digits) stamped on top of the center toggle back by the toggle knobs? Are the takedown lever and sideplate serial numbers stamped on their face, or the bottom edge?

Is there a sear safety on this Luger? (If you do not know what one looks like, do a search on 'sear safety' on the Forum--you will come across a picture).

Is the X mark for certain on the frame, or is it actually on the receiver?

Is one of the magazines marked with a + , or are the magazines marked 1 and 2? Are the magazine bases lustrous aluminum, or are they slightly dull and greenish?

Are the magazine bodies silver, bent-and-folded steel; or are they blued/extruded (do a search on fxo)? Are the magazine bodies marked in any manner--perhaps 1/2002?

Are there -any- recognizable remnants of the marking on the front grip strap? Even parts of letters/numbers, or periods, are important here.

I like working out these puzzles, keep the info coming.

--Dwight

Herb · 10-01-2005, 01:45 PM

Denny, I have one of those Lugers also with an X on the left side of the reciever just forward of the serial number but this one is a real mismatch. It's essentially a 1937 S/42. I've heard two stories about those X's, one that it is a Russian capture, the other is that it was condemmed at the factory as being so far out of tolerance as to be dangerous. I have no idea if either is true but I have shot the heck out of it and so far it hasn't blown up. All of it's normal stampings are present, nothing extra has been added.

Denny347 · 10-01-2005, 03:20 PM

Nothing else on the barrel. The magazines are numbered 1 and 2. The base of the mags appear to be in the white and look like aluminum. I think I'm gonna put it in lay-a-way. I know hte owner and he'll let me keep it there for longer than normal to pay it off. It might be a tad high but sounds like it'll be an interesting piece.

Dwight Gruber · 10-01-2005, 03:25 PM

Denny,

This is beginning to sound like a police Luger. It will be interesting to revisit these questions once you have the gun in hand.

--Dwight

Denny347 · 10-01-2005, 03:35 PM

Being a Deputy Sheriff myself that would be interesting

Denny347 · 10-01-2005, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwight Gruber
Denny,

So far this gun's identity is pretty ambiguous. The lack of a letter suffix on the frame serial number and the c/N proofs on a 9mm Luger with no GERMANY stamp, along with your other new information, prompts additional questions.

Are there any marks on the barrel in addition to the c/N--a serial number, a number like 8,82 ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Something like 8,82 was on it and a script M.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there a serial numbers stamped on the bottom surface of the recoil lug? Is the serial number (last two digits) stamped on top of the center toggle back by the toggle knobs? Are the takedown lever and sideplate serial numbers stamped on their face, or the bottom edge?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last 2 digits are on the center of the toggle. Also, the last 2 are also stamped on the takedown lever and sideplate on their face.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there a sear safety on this Luger? (If you do not know what one looks like, do a search on 'sear safety' on the Forum--you will come across a picture).

Is the X mark for certain on the frame, or is it actually on the receiver?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its just above the takedown lever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is one of the magazines marked with a + , or are the magazines marked 1 and 2? Are the magazine bases lustrous aluminum, or are they slightly dull and greenish?

Are the magazine bodies silver, bent-and-folded steel; or are they blued/extruded (do a search on fxo)? Are the magazine bodies marked in any manner--perhaps 1/2002?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2/1001 on one mag and 1/1001 is on the other.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there -any- recognizable remnants of the marking on the front grip strap? Even parts of letters/numbers, or periods, are important here.

I like working out these puzzles, keep the info coming.

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 10-01-2005, 11:08 PM

8,82 is the original marking meaning it was approved and met the land-to-land measurement.

the 2/1001 on one mag and 1/1001 is on the other is the marking done by the East Germans on magazines. Most of these guns were used by police at first, then I beleive border guards... This luger has more history to it than many. Eventually they will be collectable in their own right, but right now, not as collectable as a "un-touched" 1936, 1917, etc.

ed

09-30-2005, 01:58 AM	#1
Denny347 User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1920's DWM Commercial RC? A local shop has an all matching DWM 1920's commercial for sale with 2 matching mag for 790.00. It has Germany printed on front below barrel and I noticed a large X on the left side of the frame. The bluing is nice 80-90%. The X got me confused. Could this be a Russian captured piece even though it is a commercial model? I'm thinking about picking it up but I think 790.00 might be a tad high unless it is all original but Lugers in Indianapolis are hard to come by and they are priced accordingly.

10-01-2005, 01:45 PM	#8
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Denny, I have one of those Lugers also with an X on the left side of the reciever just forward of the serial number but this one is a real mismatch. It's essentially a 1937 S/42. I've heard two stories about those X's, one that it is a Russian capture, the other is that it was condemmed at the factory as being so far out of tolerance as to be dangerous. I have no idea if either is true but I have shot the heck out of it and so far it hasn't blown up. All of it's normal stampings are present, nothing extra has been added. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

09-30-2005, 02:46 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Denny, What is the caliber? What are the proof marks on the gun? What is the serial number, with letter suffix if there is one? What are the magazine bases made of? If it is truly a commercial Luger they should be made out of wood and be unmarked (or they might be marked GERMANY). Too many unknowns at the moment. Will they let you take pictures to post here? --Dwight

09-30-2005, 09:33 AM	#3
Denny347 User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	They are buddy's of mine so I plan on going over there to take a closer look. I was going to write down as much info as I can. I'll see about the pics but I might have to do without those.

10-01-2005, 10:28 AM	#4
Denny347 User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Serial num 7961 with no letters. All numbers match even the 2 magazines. The magazines are not wooden, the base looks like a bare matal. It has been re-blued and has a large X stamped on the left side of the frame. On the underside of the barrel there is a very small proof that looks like a crown with a letter below it...W? Same proof is on the left side of the frame. The extractor has an electro-pencil number on it that does not match the pistol. It looks like there was an import stamp on the front of the grip but someone tried to remove it. Enought of the stamp is gone that I cannot tell who the importer was. No wartime German proofs are present. I was wrong, there is no Germany on the front below the barrel...it is just the serial number. Does not look like a wartime Luger so how did it become a Russian capture? Still debating wether it is worth the price or not.

10-01-2005, 10:32 AM	#5
Denny347 User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Also, it's a 9mm and I was not able to get pics.

10-01-2005, 01:05 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Denny, So far this gun's identity is pretty ambiguous. The lack of a letter suffix on the frame serial number and the c/N proofs on a 9mm Luger with no GERMANY stamp, along with your other new information, prompts additional questions. Are there any marks on the barrel in addition to the c/N--a serial number, a number like 8,82 ? Is there a serial numbers stamped on the bottom surface of the recoil lug? Is the serial number (last two digits) stamped on top of the center toggle back by the toggle knobs? Are the takedown lever and sideplate serial numbers stamped on their face, or the bottom edge? Is there a sear safety on this Luger? (If you do not know what one looks like, do a search on 'sear safety' on the Forum--you will come across a picture). Is the X mark for certain on the frame, or is it actually on the receiver? Is one of the magazines marked with a + , or are the magazines marked 1 and 2? Are the magazine bases lustrous aluminum, or are they slightly dull and greenish? Are the magazine bodies silver, bent-and-folded steel; or are they blued/extruded (do a search on fxo)? Are the magazine bodies marked in any manner--perhaps 1/2002? Are there -any- recognizable remnants of the marking on the front grip strap? Even parts of letters/numbers, or periods, are important here. I like working out these puzzles, keep the info coming. --Dwight

10-01-2005, 03:20 PM	#9
Denny347 User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Nothing else on the barrel. The magazines are numbered 1 and 2. The base of the mags appear to be in the white and look like aluminum. I think I'm gonna put it in lay-a-way. I know hte owner and he'll let me keep it there for longer than normal to pay it off. It might be a tad high but sounds like it'll be an interesting piece.

10-01-2005, 03:25 PM	#10
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Denny, This is beginning to sound like a police Luger. It will be interesting to revisit these questions once you have the gun in hand. --Dwight

10-01-2005, 03:35 PM	#11
Denny347 User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Being a Deputy Sheriff myself that would be interesting

10-01-2005, 11:08 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	8,82 is the original marking meaning it was approved and met the land-to-land measurement. the 2/1001 on one mag and 1/1001 is on the other is the marking done by the East Germans on magazines. Most of these guns were used by police at first, then I beleive border guards... This luger has more history to it than many. Eventually they will be collectable in their own right, but right now, not as collectable as a "un-touched" 1936, 1917, etc. ed