8" barrel VS 4"barrel

[Steinar]

So far I only have Lugers with 4" barrel..
bit since my Luger adiction is getting worse, I'm now planing on bying a shooter artillery as well The plan is to sell it within a few years and purchase a nice matching one..

I have never fired a 8" luger, so my question is, how is the accuracy compared with the 4"? With and without the stock?

steinar

[Vlim]

Steinar,

I just took the same path and purchased an LP08 shooter. Accuracy is excellent at 25 meters, although you need to aim low. I can't hit a thing at 12 meters, sights just don't work for me at that distance. I'm trying to work towards single hand shooting at 50 meters.

Recoil is much more relaxed compared to the 4" P08. I still need to find a stock so I can try it as a carabine.

[pipeman45]

It's been proven many times over that barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy of a gun. Now sight radius is a completely different matter. Should add that I would love to have a navy style shooter. sneaking one past the boss is another matter!

[policeluger]

P/45....barrel length has a lot to do with accuracy of a gun, put that aside for the moment, barrel length has everything to do with powder burning and bullet stabilization. If as you say it has nothing to with accuracy, then I should cut my deer rifle barrel down to say 6", would make it a lot easer to carry on those long hunts....

[Steinar]

I suspect a longer barrel improves accuracy on pistols as well as rifles..
I'm quite unexperienced when it comes to pistols, but on rifles I find a long and stabile barrel is crucial.
Interesting to hear your experiences on pistol shooting..

[Dwight Gruber]

The sight radius of a standard 4" barrel Luger is 7 3/4 inches; the sight radius of an 8" LP-08 is only 7 inches.

I would not care to dispute a Kentuckian about the relative accuracy of long barrels, but my understanding about barrel length has always been otherwise.

I shoot an extremely accurate S/42 with a 4" barrel; in my hands, standing two-hand hold, my 1917 LP-08 shoots more accurately.

The balance of an LP-08 is very different from a standard Luger. I think also that there is something else going on with the barrel/sight geometry having to do with their positions relative to a Luger's balance/rotation geometry. I think it is measurable, but I don't have a good way to demonstrate it right now.

--Dwight

[pipeman45]

I stand by my statement. Several gun magazines have done the tests over the years. They started with long barrel rifles and pistols. Locked them down in a rest and shot them for accuracy,and then repeated the shots after shortening the barrel one inch between tests. The result was little or no loss in accuracy. Now if you want to talk about velocity or handling thats a different ball of wax!

[Hugh]

My 18 1/2" bbl Mannlicher Schoenauer Carbine is one of the most accurate rifles I have ever shot.

[pipeman45]

Got to love those old Mannlicher Schoenauers. A friend let me shoot his,what a joy! It had low recoil and the group I shot (while not as good as yours Hugh) was impressive. And those 6.5's kill like the hammer of Thor. All I can say is I wish it were mine.

[Rod WMG]

Beautiful rifle, Hugh! I've got a "thing" for that style stock, though I don't own any.

[DanM]

I agree with Pipeman: barrel length has no direct correlation to accuracy. I have seen the same tests. They start with a 30+ inch barrel, and shoot for groups with successive shorter lengths, recrowning with each cut. Accuracy remains constant with the shorter lengths. The rifle is scoped, and fired from a machine rest. I have a scoped 14" Contender in 300 Savage that groups like that nice Mannlicher if I do my part. On the other hand, a longer sight radius will improve accuracy if you have the eyes and technique to use it.

[David Jackson]

Some years ago now I had correspondence with Mr. Mitchell who was president of High Standard at one time. We were corresponding about Victor pistols and if I remember correctly he told me that the 4 1/2 inch barrel guns were more accurate than the 5 1/2" barrel guns. He told me that even the lowly .22 bullet would bulge the barrel as it travelled down it, which phenomenon was revealed by special high speed photography and that the bullet I gues got distorted by that process which affected its flight path.

For those who don't know the Victor pistols have a pretty thick walled barrel, more thickly walled than our Parabellum pistols have; and if there is that distortion with a little .22 how much can larger bullets suffer? Maybe they suffer less because they are bigger; I don't know.

Any thoughts?

That seems a little crazy, but that is what he told me.

[Steinar]

some years and kilo's ago.. I was into biathlon, from the age of 8-23 I was shooting mostly .22lr Anschutz rifles.
The competion barrel length is 56cm in this calible. "Junors", age 8-15, often had shorter and lighter rifles, the accuracy can not be compared! So.. my experience with rifles, specially the .22lr is that barrel length is important.
But I'm clueless when it comes to pistols!

btw. I recently bought a Marlin .22lr for duckhunting, different type of brand and rifle, but still with 56cm barrel length



Happy newyear everyone

[Snakeman]

Some of my shooting friends who shoot the Walther GSP (has a relatively short barrel) complain of grouping quality with some -not all- .22lr ammo. Neither of my Haemmerlis (208, 280 -both with longer barrels then the GSP) have this problem. As not all .22lrs use the same powder with the same burning rate, IMHO it may be a case of accuracy harm caused by uncomplete combustion of the powder in the shorter barrel of the GSP.

[Rod WMG]

I have no proof for these three things, only suspicions.

1) I suspect an accurate barrel is an accurate barrel, whatever the length it is. This assumes enough length to stabliize the bullet and that crowning remains constant when/if it is cut. If shot from a machine rest and human factors are removed, accuracy should remain fairly nearly constant. "Harmonics" changing with the different lengths might factor into that, however.

2) I suspect that for most people a longer and heavier barrel (within reason) on a rifle "hangs better," promoting more practical accuracy.

3) I suspect that some individual guns of a shorter length are inherently more accurate than some individual guns of longer barrel length. And vice versa. There is probably no way to account for this or to duplicate it in the manufacturing process. I just read in an American Rifleman that the Weatherby Vanguard is guaranteed to do 1 1/2". Some production rifles are pulled when tested because they will do much better and labeled as "sub MOA" guns and priced appropriately. Presumably that would indicate that things change during production.

I can attest to this: A stocked artillery is more easy for me to shoot accurately than my P-08's held in a Weaver stance. This is especially true now that my health is bad and I have had to lay off shooting for long intervals. Not only that, but I shoot several of my "regular" rifles better than I do the Artillery. Some guns are just easier to shoot and aim.

Mass produced rifles fit me pretty well--guess I'm pretty average. I would expect to do better with a stock custom made for me, though I don't have any.

Likewise, the Lugers are generally conceded to have a natural feel to them. The fact that I can shoot one better with a stock attached, as is the case with the Artillery, says something to me. The sight might indeed be longer on a P-08, but the type of sight on my Artillery is easier for me to use also.

Rod (who has personally shot 25,000 and one tin cans in his career)

[Snakeman]

Hej Terry, I did not say or even imply that the GSP is a poor design- many shooters over here swear by them, just that some shooters find it choosey about the bullets it eats, thats all.

[A.Mifsin]

Hi All, What is "The sight radius" mentioned above please?

[pipeman45]

Originally posted by A.Mifsin
Hi All, What is "The sight radius" mentioned above please?

The distance between the rear and frount sight.

[A.Mifsin]

Hi Pipeman45, If the sight radius is what you said how come that a 4" luger has his sight radius 7 3/4 inches and a 8" luger has his sight radius 7 inches, according to Dwight (above).The distance of a 4" is less than the distance of a 8".rear to front.
Alfred

[Ron Wood]

The distance of a 4" is less than the distance of a 8".rear to front

Not so. Remember, the rear sight of a 4" Luger is mounted on the rear of the toggle while both sights of the 8" artillery are mounted on the barrel.