comercial Krieghof

10e.licorne · 01-12-2006, 07:41 AM

May you give me some information on this
Luger P08 Krieghoff 7,65 an 150 mm barrel P serie (star)

no serial number
but

tanks for your interest
best regards from France

John D. · 01-12-2006, 09:04 AM

OH MY...!!!!! On a very quick glance before I head off to work (I'll try to write more late tonite when I come home)...

You have a sideframe inscribed Commercial HK (is there a "P150" on the front of the frame as well?)...

It is absolutely OUTSTANDING - including the correct markings and stamps - or at least the ones I can see in the pictures - including the toggle train. As well - it is an "uncommon" HK commercial given the configuration (caliber and Barrel length)..

While it is an incorrect mag - the grips are correct, as are the internal proofs/stamps shown in you pictures. I'd like to know more about how you came to own it and further pictures (like of the inside of the sideplate).

This could be a real treasure! Congratulations!

John D.

Navy · 01-12-2006, 10:20 AM

What a neat gun! The star placement on the breech block is seldom seen, and I lust after the neat barrel. Excellent find.

Tom A

George Anderson · 01-12-2006, 11:46 AM

Doesn't the five pointed star indicate some type of French control? I may be way off here but seem to recall Walther type pistols and maybe Mausers assembled in France having some such proof.

lugerholsterrepair · 01-12-2006, 12:08 PM

George, It's my understanding that the star on these Krieghoffs is a German rejection mark. Not good enough for Military use and relagated to commercial status. Maybe John D can elucidate. Jerry Burney

10e.licorne · 01-12-2006, 12:37 PM

yes jerry the star is a german rejection I'haven'nt got it a once doo to the french low
I will get it in one Week an half
If will put more pics whent I got it

Navy · 01-12-2006, 12:54 PM

Keoki and Jerry,

The star on P-38s was to indicate French manufacture; the star on Krieghoffs was a Luftwaffe rejection stamp. It is interesting to note that almost all of the parts on the commercials had the Luftwaffe L 2 stamp; they were made with the full intent of being assembled and delivered to Luftwaffe ordnance types for acceptance. Those that didn't make the cut for whatever reason, were stamped with the star and returned to HK. The P-codes, I believe, are all Luftwaffe rejects. The presentation guns, I am not certain about, but suspect they were separate production runs.

Tom A.

John D. · 01-12-2006, 11:10 PM

Hey folks,

Yep - Tom A. has it about right. There were several rejection marks used by HK - the 5-point star one such. These, instead of the LWaA proofs on the right cannon, may have a rejection star. Also - the difference between the French post-war P38 and the HK version is both size and placement. The First Series P-codes (named given the "P" placed before the serial number on the front of the frame) are those normally found with the side-frame inscription. Second and Third variations have their own features - but are not inscribed.

As for presentation HKs - they are commercialized Military - rather than rejected.

Great thread!!!! Sorriaux - we are looking forward to seeing more pictures! Thanks for posting those you have!

John D.

kidvett · 01-13-2006, 12:40 AM

Great pistol, bravo !!

Perhaps my eyes are tired ( il's late...) but it seems to me that the rear sight is a tad higher than a ``regular`` P08 ??

MARC

drbuster · 01-13-2006, 09:08 AM

The side frame inscription is interesting. A while back a long thread appeared on the Forum regarding whether these inscriptions were roll dyed or engraved. This example looks roll dyed to me. Any comments?

Ron Wood · 01-13-2006, 11:37 AM

Herb,
They are engraved (pantographed). Look at the uniform rounded ends of the lines in the letters. It was done with a very find cutter, fed slowly to minmize the swirl pattern. The oxidation on this gun and the lighting further masks the swirling so that it is not visible at all in the photo.

10e.licorne · 01-13-2006, 12:29 PM

do you think it's normal no "P" before the serial number "150" like Randall Gibson speak ?
may be my english is not so good to understand all his description wath meens "p code type"

if someone have a photo of the original magazine please post it

best regards

Big Norm · 01-14-2006, 04:33 AM

This is the first time that I have seen a long barrel on a HK. Are there many of these? Would the serial number be on them? Is there one in Gibsons book?

Gibsons book does mention that there are four pointed rejection stars (I have one of those) and, surpisingly, there are some with six pointed stars. The rejection star on the above gun looks pretty crisp and doesn't have and plomb or wave around the edges. Wouldn't this mark have been stamped after the bluing?

The rear sight does look a little long.
Big Norm

10e.licorne · 01-14-2006, 02:14 PM

is this magazine the good one ?

Big Norm · 01-15-2006, 05:04 PM

Strange, Simpson has this same Luger magazine for sale.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...acfa79cc154c84

Is there a connection here?

In my earlier post, I asked about the serial number on this gun. I ment to ask if the serial number was on the bottom of the barrel?
Big Norm

10e.licorne · 01-16-2006, 01:00 AM

yes this magazine come from Simpson I would like to now if this model is realy the good one ?
for the serial number I have to got it from the seller do to the french low
it will take a week now
best regards
jean marie

Big Norm · 01-16-2006, 01:31 PM

Thats a lot of money to pay for a magazine whose serial number does not match your gun. (Just my humble opinion)

I think that the limits of my knowledge has been reached. Most of my questions were not asked to cast dispersions on your gun. They were asked to increase my knowledge about these particular weapons. I think that I need to back away and let the people here who are the REAL experts comment. Its just that I have never seen a Kreighoff with a long barrel and that starts ringing warning bells off in my head. So I take a closer look at what is being presented.
Big Norm

10e.licorne · 01-17-2006, 01:01 PM

this model was made for the german airforce some of this was out of range for an military use and was rejected (star) they was sell as commercial model
for the serial number under the barrel I don't now I will get it soon and post more pics
for the magazine I am not stupide ... I only woud be sure this is the good model the seller say me he will change the wood one for an aluminium one but I don't now witch one
best regards

01-12-2006, 07:41 AM	#1
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	comercial Krieghof May you give me some information on this Luger P08 Krieghoff 7,65 an 150 mm barrel P serie (star) no serial number but tanks for your interest best regards from France __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-12-2006, 12:08 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	George, It's my understanding that the star on these Krieghoffs is a German rejection mark. Not good enough for Military use and relagated to commercial status. Maybe John D can elucidate. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-12-2006, 12:37 PM	#6
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	yes jerry the star is a german rejection I'haven'nt got it a once doo to the french low I will get it in one Week an half If will put more pics whent I got it __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-13-2006, 11:37 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Herb, They are engraved (pantographed). Look at the uniform rounded ends of the lines in the letters. It was done with a very find cutter, fed slowly to minmize the swirl pattern. The oxidation on this gun and the lighting further masks the swirling so that it is not visible at all in the photo. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-13-2006, 12:29 PM	#12
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	do you think it's normal no "P" before the serial number "150" like Randall Gibson speak ? may be my english is not so good to understand all his description wath meens "p code type" if someone have a photo of the original magazine please post it best regards __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-12-2006, 09:04 AM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	OH MY...!!!!! On a very quick glance before I head off to work (I'll try to write more late tonite when I come home)... You have a sideframe inscribed Commercial HK (is there a "P150" on the front of the frame as well?)... It is absolutely OUTSTANDING - including the correct markings and stamps - or at least the ones I can see in the pictures - including the toggle train. As well - it is an "uncommon" HK commercial given the configuration (caliber and Barrel length).. While it is an incorrect mag - the grips are correct, as are the internal proofs/stamps shown in you pictures. I'd like to know more about how you came to own it and further pictures (like of the inside of the sideplate). This could be a real treasure! Congratulations! John D.

01-12-2006, 10:20 AM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	What a neat gun! The star placement on the breech block is seldom seen, and I lust after the neat barrel. Excellent find. Tom A

01-12-2006, 11:46 AM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Doesn't the five pointed star indicate some type of French control? I may be way off here but seem to recall Walther type pistols and maybe Mausers assembled in France having some such proof.

01-12-2006, 12:54 PM	#7
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Keoki and Jerry, The star on P-38s was to indicate French manufacture; the star on Krieghoffs was a Luftwaffe rejection stamp. It is interesting to note that almost all of the parts on the commercials had the Luftwaffe L 2 stamp; they were made with the full intent of being assembled and delivered to Luftwaffe ordnance types for acceptance. Those that didn't make the cut for whatever reason, were stamped with the star and returned to HK. The P-codes, I believe, are all Luftwaffe rejects. The presentation guns, I am not certain about, but suspect they were separate production runs. Tom A.

01-12-2006, 11:10 PM	#8
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hey folks, Yep - Tom A. has it about right. There were several rejection marks used by HK - the 5-point star one such. These, instead of the LWaA proofs on the right cannon, may have a rejection star. Also - the difference between the French post-war P38 and the HK version is both size and placement. The First Series P-codes (named given the "P" placed before the serial number on the front of the frame) are those normally found with the side-frame inscription. Second and Third variations have their own features - but are not inscribed. As for presentation HKs - they are commercialized Military - rather than rejected. Great thread!!!! Sorriaux - we are looking forward to seeing more pictures! Thanks for posting those you have! John D.

01-13-2006, 12:40 AM	#9
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Great pistol, bravo !! Perhaps my eyes are tired ( il's late...) but it seems to me that the rear sight is a tad higher than a ``regular`` P08 ?? MARC

01-13-2006, 09:08 AM	#10
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	The side frame inscription is interesting. A while back a long thread appeared on the Forum regarding whether these inscriptions were roll dyed or engraved. This example looks roll dyed to me. Any comments?

01-14-2006, 04:33 AM	#13
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	This is the first time that I have seen a long barrel on a HK. Are there many of these? Would the serial number be on them? Is there one in Gibsons book? Gibsons book does mention that there are four pointed rejection stars (I have one of those) and, surpisingly, there are some with six pointed stars. The rejection star on the above gun looks pretty crisp and doesn't have and plomb or wave around the edges. Wouldn't this mark have been stamped after the bluing? The rear sight does look a little long. Big Norm

01-14-2006, 02:14 PM	#14
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	is this magazine the good one ? __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-15-2006, 05:04 PM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Strange, Simpson has this same Luger magazine for sale. http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...acfa79cc154c84 Is there a connection here? In my earlier post, I asked about the serial number on this gun. I ment to ask if the serial number was on the bottom of the barrel? Big Norm

01-16-2006, 01:00 AM	#16
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	yes this magazine come from Simpson I would like to now if this model is realy the good one ? for the serial number I have to got it from the seller do to the french low it will take a week now best regards jean marie __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-16-2006, 01:31 PM	#17
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Thats a lot of money to pay for a magazine whose serial number does not match your gun. (Just my humble opinion) I think that the limits of my knowledge has been reached. Most of my questions were not asked to cast dispersions on your gun. They were asked to increase my knowledge about these particular weapons. I think that I need to back away and let the people here who are the REAL experts comment. Its just that I have never seen a Kreighoff with a long barrel and that starts ringing warning bells off in my head. So I take a closer look at what is being presented. Big Norm

01-17-2006, 01:01 PM	#18
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	this model was made for the german airforce some of this was out of range for an military use and was rejected (star) they was sell as commercial model for the serial number under the barrel I don't now I will get it soon and post more pics for the magazine I am not stupide ... I only woud be sure this is the good model the seller say me he will change the wood one for an aluminium one but I don't now witch one best regards __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it