Ammunition Tests

Dwight Gruber · 03-30-2006, 01:08 PM

I found this post on rec.guns this morning, thought it was interestng enough to pass along.

--Dwight

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9mm Feeding Experiments (was re: self defense ammo)

Just a sidebar to share an experience for folks pondering self-defense loads & applications:

After taking accounting & high level math in college, I gained new insight into firearms. I began to view some of the more perplexing symptoms as math experiments rather than "gun reliability" problems. The results were interesting and enlightening, to say the least.

A few years ago, one of the experiments I performed was lining up everything my friends & I had that would shoot 9mmx19 ammunition. Then, we collected samples of each type of 9mm available on the commercial market. The test results were arranged in rows & columns in a spreadsheet: the handgun type was in the left-most column, the ammunition types occupied the top (header) row. As each pistol was fired with each type of ammunition, the reliability results were recorded as a percentage in each row & column coordinate for that particular pistol & ammo combination.

Some of the results were predictable, 9mm Glocks would cycle anything
approximating 9mm ammunition, a stock TT-33 modified only with a 9mm barrel would feed full metal jacket ammunition reliably, but not hollow points. There were a few surprises:

-A 1943 Walther P-38 easily matched the best of the 9mm Glocks for both
accuracy and reliability.

-A 1982 (Belgian) Browning HiPower matched the Glock & P-38 for performance with all types of ammunition.

-One misfire with Chinese surplus ammunition in a Glock 19 (statistically)
pushed the P-38 & the HiPower ahead of one Glock 19 tested.

- A 1937 Parabellum (AKA "Luger") was very picky, short-cycling on nearly
everything except certain Sellier-Bellot loads. But, it easily made
one-ragged hole groups at 25 yards after becoming accustomed to the spongy trigger. With hotter 9mm loads, its performance was close to a Glock, but -much- more accurate.

One of the hollow point ammunition types was surplus 9mmx19 reloaded with Winchester silvertip bullets and randomly selected cases. Each round was individually checked for primer seat depth, powder charge & dimensional compliance against both existing ammunition and dimensions supplied by a reloading manual. Very few handguns choked on it, the only handguns that had problems with hand loads also had feeding & reliability issues with other factory-loaded hollow point designs and occasionally some FMJ as well. This validated the mechanical reliability of reloads if done judiciously.

I recorded the results in an Excel spreadsheet for future analysis, the merit of this is the ability to instantly recall the test results when selecting potential defense or high-reliability applications.

This testing technique, although simple, yields hard numbers for a given range of conditions. It's a mandatory process with my reloads; the results frequently exceed factory-made ammunition.

Please note the following:

-This was strictly a function & accuracy test, terminal ballistics were not evaluated.

-No firearms tested were subjected to mud, dirt, contamination, neglect or abuse as found in war or conflict. Thus, the Parabellum was permitted to operate under near ideal conditions.

-9mmx19 wasn't the only size we tested that day, but we did have the broadest spectrum of handguns and ammunition. Thus, the tests were more comprehensive.

I hope this inspires someone to perform similar tests, but concentrating on terminal ballistics. The "box 'o truth" is a good start.

Richard Davis

Tomathvl · 03-30-2006, 06:15 PM

There's an interesting article in the May/June issue of "American Handgunner" magazine by Massad Ayoob that discusses the reasons to not use reloads in a defensive weapon. Too long to go into here; his recommendation is based on a legal case that he participated in that had reloaded ammo as part of a complicated situation. Bottom line, he convinced me that it's a wise thing to use factory loaded defensive ammo.
Tom

03-30-2006, 01:08 PM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Ammunition Tests I found this post on rec.guns this morning, thought it was interestng enough to pass along. --Dwight --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9mm Feeding Experiments (was re: self defense ammo) Just a sidebar to share an experience for folks pondering self-defense loads & applications: After taking accounting & high level math in college, I gained new insight into firearms. I began to view some of the more perplexing symptoms as math experiments rather than "gun reliability" problems. The results were interesting and enlightening, to say the least. A few years ago, one of the experiments I performed was lining up everything my friends & I had that would shoot 9mmx19 ammunition. Then, we collected samples of each type of 9mm available on the commercial market. The test results were arranged in rows & columns in a spreadsheet: the handgun type was in the left-most column, the ammunition types occupied the top (header) row. As each pistol was fired with each type of ammunition, the reliability results were recorded as a percentage in each row & column coordinate for that particular pistol & ammo combination. Some of the results were predictable, 9mm Glocks would cycle anything approximating 9mm ammunition, a stock TT-33 modified only with a 9mm barrel would feed full metal jacket ammunition reliably, but not hollow points. There were a few surprises: -A 1943 Walther P-38 easily matched the best of the 9mm Glocks for both accuracy and reliability. -A 1982 (Belgian) Browning HiPower matched the Glock & P-38 for performance with all types of ammunition. -One misfire with Chinese surplus ammunition in a Glock 19 (statistically) pushed the P-38 & the HiPower ahead of one Glock 19 tested. - A 1937 Parabellum (AKA "Luger") was very picky, short-cycling on nearly everything except certain Sellier-Bellot loads. But, it easily made one-ragged hole groups at 25 yards after becoming accustomed to the spongy trigger. With hotter 9mm loads, its performance was close to a Glock, but -much- more accurate. One of the hollow point ammunition types was surplus 9mmx19 reloaded with Winchester silvertip bullets and randomly selected cases. Each round was individually checked for primer seat depth, powder charge & dimensional compliance against both existing ammunition and dimensions supplied by a reloading manual. Very few handguns choked on it, the only handguns that had problems with hand loads also had feeding & reliability issues with other factory-loaded hollow point designs and occasionally some FMJ as well. This validated the mechanical reliability of reloads if done judiciously. I recorded the results in an Excel spreadsheet for future analysis, the merit of this is the ability to instantly recall the test results when selecting potential defense or high-reliability applications. This testing technique, although simple, yields hard numbers for a given range of conditions. It's a mandatory process with my reloads; the results frequently exceed factory-made ammunition. Please note the following: -This was strictly a function & accuracy test, terminal ballistics were not evaluated. -No firearms tested were subjected to mud, dirt, contamination, neglect or abuse as found in war or conflict. Thus, the Parabellum was permitted to operate under near ideal conditions. -9mmx19 wasn't the only size we tested that day, but we did have the broadest spectrum of handguns and ammunition. Thus, the tests were more comprehensive. I hope this inspires someone to perform similar tests, but concentrating on terminal ballistics. The "box 'o truth" is a good start. Richard Davis

03-30-2006, 06:15 PM	#2
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	There's an interesting article in the May/June issue of "American Handgunner" magazine by Massad Ayoob that discusses the reasons to not use reloads in a defensive weapon. Too long to go into here; his recommendation is based on a legal case that he participated in that had reloaded ammo as part of a complicated situation. Bottom line, he convinced me that it's a wise thing to use factory loaded defensive ammo. Tom