Pre-Test American Eagle

N900WM · 04-04-2006, 09:03 AM

New Guy here who just purchased my first Luger! I beleive it's a 1900 AE S/N 5403 all matching on barrel and action...The mag has no serial number but has a wood bottom with a metal band unlike others I have seen.

It's about 85% but no straw...7.65mm

I've been reading about the test models and later models with higher s/n's. But have not run across any information on the lower serial numbers.

Does anyone have any insight into what I might have here?

Edward Tinker · 04-04-2006, 10:26 AM

William,

to the forum! INTERESTING first luger to get? How'd you come across it?

Can you provide pictures?

Where are there any proofs or serial numbers, to include on the inside?

Ed

Ron Wood · 04-04-2006, 12:17 PM

The earliest verified American Eagle serial number is #2002. The first 200 (highest known is #2199), and another block in the 8900 range, had Swiss proofed barrels. Five other American Eagle Lugers in the 5400 range have been reported, including #5404 consecutive with yours.
The magazine sounds interesting. As Ed requested, can you provide pictures of the gun and magazine?

N900WM · 04-05-2006, 09:52 AM

Ron and Ed,
Thank you for the interest and help. I will attempt to ad some images...

There are no proof marks on the outside of the gun. On the inside, 403 is stamped on the bottom of the action as well as an O that has a couple of tails, next to that a J. On numberous other parts, 03 can be found.
GERMANY is stamped under the s/n on the frame.

William

N900WM · 04-05-2006, 09:52 AM

more...

N900WM · 04-05-2006, 09:55 AM

another

N900WM · 04-05-2006, 09:55 AM

One more

N900WM · 04-05-2006, 09:56 AM

O.K., last one

drbuster · 04-05-2006, 10:13 AM

I've never seen a metal piece atached to the bottom of an old commercial magazine like this one. Could it have been added by some skilled metal worker aftermarket to protect the wooden bottom if it was used as a hammer? Just a WAG.

Edward Tinker · 04-05-2006, 11:16 AM

doc, I wondered at this too. I assumed the bottom was cracking and like you said, an enterprising individual 'fixed" it.

Ed

Lugerdoc · 04-05-2006, 11:18 AM

Doc, The metal strip at the mag bottom is undoubtable a repair to save a loose or cracked wood bottom. The straw on the trigger and other small parts looks too good, so probably restrawed, but no big deal, if all the parts are matching period DWM commerical parts. TH

John Sabato · 04-05-2006, 11:44 AM

A very nice 1900..... CONGRATS!

Dwight Gruber · 04-05-2006, 01:29 PM

William,

A rather nice example of an early 1900 American Eagle you have there, thanks very much for all the pictures. Its not clear from the photos, could you say where the takedown lever is numbered?

--Dwight

N900WM · 04-05-2006, 02:33 PM

Dwight, The take-down is numbered 03 on the bottom side of the lever.
Doc, Upon further inspection, the metal strip is a repair. The wood is cracked.

Two more questions, how do you release the catch on the right side toggle to **** the gun or open the action? There is a catch under the right knob which is not present on the other later models I purchased with this AE.

Last question: Any idea what this thing is worth? Best guesses welcome. I'd like to know how I did compared to my purchase price.

Thanks again,
William

Dwight Gruber · 04-05-2006, 03:33 PM

William,

Thanks for the additional number information.

The action on a toggle-lock Luger is opened by pulling -back- on the toggles, they will be forced up when they reach the toggle ramps. You may note at that point that the dished toggles are ergonomically designed specifically to be pulled back, rather than straight up as in New Model designs.

I bought my very early (sn 2104) 1900 American Eagle, in comparable condition to yours, about three years ago from a dealer for $1,850, marked down from $2,300 or so. Prices have advanced since then. I haven't bought one lately so its hard to suggest a real-world value, but I think that the amounts for which these guns have traded hands are likely to be much less than the retail asking prices from Simson or other dealers. Perhaps others here can relate their own experience.

--Dwight

Mike Jones · 04-05-2006, 04:00 PM

FWIW.. I have a couple of three diget 1900 AE recorded. more then likely sample guns to get orders.

Regards,
Mike Jones

Ron Wood · 04-05-2006, 04:29 PM

Mike,
Dwight had recorded a 3-digit 1900 AE also. Like you, I presumed it was a sample piece, with the first production run starting at 2002.

Mike Jones · 04-05-2006, 04:58 PM

Ron,

Did not see it on Dwights list. I have one much earier and one real close to what he has listed.

Mike

Dwight Gruber · 04-05-2006, 06:39 PM

Hmmm, I thought the three-digit AE was just an anomaly...

--Dwight

Ron Wood · 04-05-2006, 08:49 PM

Dwight,
That was my first reaction too when I saw your list. Then I considered that there had to be some marketing done even back in those days, so I toyed with the possibility of a sales sample. Another gun close to the one on your list is a comfort factor for that hypothesis. But, a "much earlier" number is a little disconcerting. You would think samples would be fairly close serial number-wise.
So many questions, so little facts. <<Sigh>>

04-04-2006, 09:03 AM	#1
N900WM User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pre-Test American Eagle New Guy here who just purchased my first Luger! I beleive it's a 1900 AE S/N 5403 all matching on barrel and action...The mag has no serial number but has a wood bottom with a metal band unlike others I have seen. It's about 85% but no straw...7.65mm I've been reading about the test models and later models with higher s/n's. But have not run across any information on the lower serial numbers. Does anyone have any insight into what I might have here?

04-04-2006, 12:17 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	The earliest verified American Eagle serial number is #2002. The first 200 (highest known is #2199), and another block in the 8900 range, had Swiss proofed barrels. Five other American Eagle Lugers in the 5400 range have been reported, including #5404 consecutive with yours. The magazine sounds interesting. As Ed requested, can you provide pictures of the gun and magazine? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-05-2006, 09:52 AM	#4
N900WM User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron and Ed, Thank you for the interest and help. I will attempt to ad some images... There are no proof marks on the outside of the gun. On the inside, 403 is stamped on the bottom of the action as well as an O that has a couple of tails, next to that a J. On numberous other parts, 03 can be found. GERMANY is stamped under the s/n on the frame. William Attached Thumbnails

04-05-2006, 09:55 AM	#6
N900WM User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	another Attached Thumbnails

04-05-2006, 09:55 AM	#7
N900WM User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One more Attached Thumbnails

04-04-2006, 10:26 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	William, to the forum! INTERESTING first luger to get? How'd you come across it? Can you provide pictures? Where are there any proofs or serial numbers, to include on the inside? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-05-2006, 09:52 AM	#5
N900WM User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more... Attached Thumbnails

04-05-2006, 09:56 AM	#8
N900WM User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	O.K., last one Attached Thumbnails

04-05-2006, 10:13 AM	#9
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	I've never seen a metal piece atached to the bottom of an old commercial magazine like this one. Could it have been added by some skilled metal worker aftermarket to protect the wooden bottom if it was used as a hammer? Just a WAG.

04-05-2006, 11:16 AM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	doc, I wondered at this too. I assumed the bottom was cracking and like you said, an enterprising individual 'fixed" it. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-05-2006, 11:18 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Doc, The metal strip at the mag bottom is undoubtable a repair to save a loose or cracked wood bottom. The straw on the trigger and other small parts looks too good, so probably restrawed, but no big deal, if all the parts are matching period DWM commerical parts. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

04-05-2006, 11:44 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	A very nice 1900..... CONGRATS! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-05-2006, 01:29 PM	#13
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	William, A rather nice example of an early 1900 American Eagle you have there, thanks very much for all the pictures. Its not clear from the photos, could you say where the takedown lever is numbered? --Dwight

04-05-2006, 02:33 PM	#14
N900WM User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight, The take-down is numbered 03 on the bottom side of the lever. Doc, Upon further inspection, the metal strip is a repair. The wood is cracked. Two more questions, how do you release the catch on the right side toggle to **** the gun or open the action? There is a catch under the right knob which is not present on the other later models I purchased with this AE. Last question: Any idea what this thing is worth? Best guesses welcome. I'd like to know how I did compared to my purchase price. Thanks again, William

04-05-2006, 03:33 PM	#15
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	William, Thanks for the additional number information. The action on a toggle-lock Luger is opened by pulling -back- on the toggles, they will be forced up when they reach the toggle ramps. You may note at that point that the dished toggles are ergonomically designed specifically to be pulled back, rather than straight up as in New Model designs. I bought my very early (sn 2104) 1900 American Eagle, in comparable condition to yours, about three years ago from a dealer for $1,850, marked down from $2,300 or so. Prices have advanced since then. I haven't bought one lately so its hard to suggest a real-world value, but I think that the amounts for which these guns have traded hands are likely to be much less than the retail asking prices from Simson or other dealers. Perhaps others here can relate their own experience. --Dwight

04-05-2006, 04:00 PM	#16
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	FWIW.. I have a couple of three diget 1900 AE recorded. more then likely sample guns to get orders. Regards, Mike Jones

04-05-2006, 04:29 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Mike, Dwight had recorded a 3-digit 1900 AE also. Like you, I presumed it was a sample piece, with the first production run starting at 2002. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-05-2006, 04:58 PM	#18
Mike Jones User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Torrance, Calif. Posts: 67 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Ron, Did not see it on Dwights list. I have one much earier and one real close to what he has listed. Mike

04-05-2006, 06:39 PM	#19
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Hmmm, I thought the three-digit AE was just an anomaly... --Dwight

04-05-2006, 08:49 PM	#20
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Dwight, That was my first reaction too when I saw your list. Then I considered that there had to be some marketing done even back in those days, so I toyed with the possibility of a sales sample. Another gun close to the one on your list is a comfort factor for that hypothesis. But, a "much earlier" number is a little disconcerting. You would think samples would be fairly close serial number-wise. So many questions, so little facts. <<Sigh>> __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction