Gem in West Texas

Ron Wood · 09-25-2006, 10:50 PM

A little known gem out here in the wilds of west Texas and southern New Mexico is the War Eagles Air Museum dedicated to collecting, restoring and displaying historic aircraft of the World War II and the Korean Conflict eras. It is about 5 miles from where I live in Santa Teresa, NM, just outside of El Paso, TX. There are couple of score of superbly preserved and restored aircraft on display. One of the ones that particularly caught my eye is a pristine Fiesler Storch, no doubt made under the watchful eye of the plant guard whose beautiful Luger and badge Ron Smith now possesses.

John D. · 09-25-2006, 11:01 PM

Great Thread Ron!!! (again..

)

Don't ask me how I did that - I'll have to show Ed..

)

John D.

Ron Smith · 09-26-2006, 12:53 AM

For those who haven't seen the Luger that Ron is referring to. It has been identified and verified by the director of the Fieseler Society / Museum in Germany through interviews with several of the surviving Fieseler factory employees.

It also is going to be presented in a documentary film about the history of the Fieseler Company and their aircraft, in the near future.

A 1923 (1919) commercial with blank toggle and chamber. Verified to be a Fieseler factory guard pistol.

Right side bears E/GW3 and E/HZa16 proof and acceptance stamps.

Shown with guards badge. Pin-backed badges were worn only by Officers/Supervisors. Guards had cloth patches sewn to their uniforms.

View of blank toggle and chamber.

One thing that I find more than coincidental is the Krieghoff firing pin retainer. Since Fieseler came under control of the Luftwaffe. I believe this may have been a replacement from an on site armorers parts box.

]

Unmarked shoulder holster.

75BShooter · 09-26-2006, 02:12 AM

Neat pictures from both Ron's..Thanks. Have seem a couple of Storchs at the Oshkosh Air Adventure. That's the plane Hitler's boys staged a Commando raid in the mountain resort in the Appenines to get Missolini out of harm way only to meet his end a few days later in Italy.

Ron Smith · 09-26-2006, 10:51 AM

Response to John's request for details~

A few months ago I was checking the on-line dealers sites for unit marked lugers. I came across this Luger on Randy Bessler's site. I was told by another forum member that it, the badge and holster had been offered at the previous RIA auction and had drawn little interest. Evidently Randy won it at the auction.

He had it posted as having an unusual "Double Arrow" marking. And was also asking for information as to the markings meaning. Being a life long WWI/WWII history and military addict. I recalled the marking as being seen on either a German armored vehicle or aircraft, but wasn't sure.

I researched it for nearly a month. And inquired on several German Militaria collectors forums. Finally a member of one of these forums directed me to a post about a "Fieseler" marked police/fire helmet with the same 'Lazy F" mark. I immediately contacted Randy and negotiated a deal, and aquired the set.

At first the reaction from the majority of the collector community was that it was most likely a boosted 1923 commercial Luger. The proofs were in doubt, etc. The only truly positive support came from Joop van de Kant who helped me research it further. Without Joop's help I would have given up on it as being what it was suspected to be , a fake.

Shortly there after, I received an e-mail from a gentleman in Michigan who has one of the world's largest collections of Fieseler items, literally thousands of items, and is in constant contact with the Fieseler Society and collectors fraternity in Germany. He knows nothing of guns, but wanted it for his collection. He in turn has sent photos and numerous inquiries to Germany about the pistol. It has been authenticated by the Director of the Fieseler Society through interviews with former employees of the company.

I have sent requested high resolution photos to the Society for presentation in a documentary film being made about the Fieseler Company.

I have also promised the collector first chance at it, should I ever decide to sell it. He keeps sending me offers via e-mail.

There's the story, as briefly as I can present it.

BTW, Fieseler also designed , built and supplied the F-103 more infamously known as the V-1 "Buzz Bomb". They had 3 facilities (two of which were captured by the Russians? The third was bombed to oblivion by the U.S and British) with approximately 10-12 "Werkschutz" Guards per facility. This could be the only surviving example.

Also, I am told that only Officers/Supervisors had removable pin- back badges (pictured) , the guards had cloth patches sewn onto their uniforms.

John Sabato · 09-26-2006, 11:59 AM

I am glad that most of this topic was able to be restored and thanks to all who replaced their original post after it was accidently erased by some sleepy moderator

Now for my question--Since this gun has a blank toggle and no chamber mark, In your collective opinions would this example also be considered a "sneak" variation?

Ron Smith · 09-26-2006, 12:43 PM

John,

Ed is no longer on my Christmas card list...

That question has been posed. The problem is that it is marked in several locations with the GEW3 stamp which is as yet unidentifed, except for Costanzo. Who says it is a Mauser factory stamp, but his discription is in doubt.

It is also in 7,65 Parabellum caliber. So, is most likely a reworked commercial pistol.

Ron

shadow · 09-26-2006, 02:32 PM

Ok, I will redo my original post, with some modifications.

That is a nice plane and a nice airport, I stopped there once when ferrying a Piper Warrior from Tucson AZ to Atlantic City NJ.

I'm glad to see we have several other pilots on the forum.

75BShooter, I go to EAA AirVenture, at Oshkosh every year. Perhaps I will see you there.

Blue Skies!!!!

Chris

lugerholsterrepair · 09-26-2006, 03:37 PM

Really neat Ron!
For those of you who like this type of history,I just finished a great book on flying in 1930's Germany.."Flying is my Life" by Anna Reisch. She was one amazing Woman who rose to the top as a Nazi Test Pilot. During the closing days of the War in Berlin she flew a Feisler-Storch into Berlin as a passenger BEHIND and over the shoulder of the wounded and unconcious pilot. They were flying low and slow to be able to see the ground as the artillery fire was intense kicking up dust and Russian troops were able to shoot at the aircraft at will. Her feats of flying skill will put a lump in your throat. Quite an aircraft in the hands of such a Pilot. Jerry Burney

John Sabato · 09-26-2006, 04:51 PM

Jerry, a descendent of Anna Reisch, is a member of this forum... although we haven't had her post in a couple of years... Her name is Hannah Reisch, and her screen name was Hannah...

Hannah if you are still lurking... how about letting us know.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-26-2006, 05:19 PM

Well! That is AMAZING! Anna's dedication and skill to her chosen profession was spectacular to say the very least. Her experiences would be an inspiration to anyone and especially to a Woman. She surmounted and overcame many predjuidices in the 1930's that are now available to those who dream of the open skies...I would be interested to know how Hanna is related...Jerry Burney

75BShooter · 09-26-2006, 05:52 PM

Chris (AKA-Shadow) Yea, Oshkosh is neat. Been there since 88'. Has been a long flight out from Calif. in my Cherokee then the last few times in my Cardinal.

John Sabato · 09-26-2006, 06:50 PM

Jerry, I was slightly mistaken... Her screen name was HannahR, and she hasn't posted since September of 2002. In that post, she reported that she had just moved to east Texas, and was the proud owner of a Bed and Breakfast... Don't know if that is still true, but here is the link she provided:

http://www.threeoaks-marshall.com/index.html

Hannah's membership dates back to almost the Taiwan days of this discussion board... she may even have been the first female member of the Lugerforum... to the best of my recollection she was a great niece of Anna Reisch... but you know how reliable recollection is at our age...

shadow · 09-26-2006, 10:46 PM

75BShooter, Hopefully Ill see you there next year!

About 10 to 15 years ago I saw a documentary that included allot of information on Hanna Reitsch. The thing that stands out in my mind is her flying a helicopter inside a stadium.

Chris

75BShooter · 09-26-2006, 11:42 PM

Chris,
Check your PM...Tim (AKA) 75BShooter

hqbmw · 09-28-2006, 01:55 AM

My sister's next door neighbor in Canberra Australia has a Storch that he was kind enough to share with me. he told me a story that the Storch was the plane that was used to rescue an ailing Hitler from Italy and return him safely to Deutchland. I have no comfirmation of this but he (Dennis) is a very sharp man and I have no reason to distrust hiom.

Jack Hiles
Mesa AZ

lugerholsterrepair · 09-28-2006, 02:33 PM

Chris, Exactly right! She was the first pilot, Man or Woman to fly a helicopter in an enclosed building!

Jack, No Kidding! Has he still got it? Jerry

10-12-2006, 06:19 PM

Hanna Reitsch was a great female German test pilot in WWII. She was the only civilian to be awarded the Iron Cross by Hitler himself, and the Luftwaffe diamond clasp. Hanna flew the last plane out of Berlin before the Russians took the city. Wish I could have met her.

Hope this helps.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-12-2006, 07:07 PM

Her dedication and story should be an inspiration to Women around the World. Jerry Burney

09-25-2006, 10:50 PM	#1
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Gem in West Texas A little known gem out here in the wilds of west Texas and southern New Mexico is the War Eagles Air Museum dedicated to collecting, restoring and displaying historic aircraft of the World War II and the Korean Conflict eras. It is about 5 miles from where I live in Santa Teresa, NM, just outside of El Paso, TX. There are couple of score of superbly preserved and restored aircraft on display. One of the ones that particularly caught my eye is a pristine Fiesler Storch, no doubt made under the watchful eye of the plant guard whose beautiful Luger and badge Ron Smith now possesses. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-26-2006, 12:53 AM	#3
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	For those who haven't seen the Luger that Ron is referring to. It has been identified and verified by the director of the Fieseler Society / Museum in Germany through interviews with several of the surviving Fieseler factory employees. It also is going to be presented in a documentary film about the history of the Fieseler Company and their aircraft, in the near future. A 1923 (1919) commercial with blank toggle and chamber. Verified to be a Fieseler factory guard pistol. Right side bears E/GW3 and E/HZa16 proof and acceptance stamps. Shown with guards badge. Pin-backed badges were worn only by Officers/Supervisors. Guards had cloth patches sewn to their uniforms. View of blank toggle and chamber. One thing that I find more than coincidental is the Krieghoff firing pin retainer. Since Fieseler came under control of the Luftwaffe. I believe this may have been a replacement from an on site armorers parts box. ] Unmarked shoulder holster. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

09-26-2006, 10:51 AM	#5
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Response to John's request for details~ A few months ago I was checking the on-line dealers sites for unit marked lugers. I came across this Luger on Randy Bessler's site. I was told by another forum member that it, the badge and holster had been offered at the previous RIA auction and had drawn little interest. Evidently Randy won it at the auction. He had it posted as having an unusual "Double Arrow" marking. And was also asking for information as to the markings meaning. Being a life long WWI/WWII history and military addict. I recalled the marking as being seen on either a German armored vehicle or aircraft, but wasn't sure. I researched it for nearly a month. And inquired on several German Militaria collectors forums. Finally a member of one of these forums directed me to a post about a "Fieseler" marked police/fire helmet with the same 'Lazy F" mark. I immediately contacted Randy and negotiated a deal, and aquired the set. At first the reaction from the majority of the collector community was that it was most likely a boosted 1923 commercial Luger. The proofs were in doubt, etc. The only truly positive support came from Joop van de Kant who helped me research it further. Without Joop's help I would have given up on it as being what it was suspected to be , a fake. Shortly there after, I received an e-mail from a gentleman in Michigan who has one of the world's largest collections of Fieseler items, literally thousands of items, and is in constant contact with the Fieseler Society and collectors fraternity in Germany. He knows nothing of guns, but wanted it for his collection. He in turn has sent photos and numerous inquiries to Germany about the pistol. It has been authenticated by the Director of the Fieseler Society through interviews with former employees of the company. I have sent requested high resolution photos to the Society for presentation in a documentary film being made about the Fieseler Company. I have also promised the collector first chance at it, should I ever decide to sell it. He keeps sending me offers via e-mail. There's the story, as briefly as I can present it. BTW, Fieseler also designed , built and supplied the F-103 more infamously known as the V-1 "Buzz Bomb". They had 3 facilities (two of which were captured by the Russians? The third was bombed to oblivion by the U.S and British) with approximately 10-12 "Werkschutz" Guards per facility. This could be the only surviving example. Also, I am told that only Officers/Supervisors had removable pin- back badges (pictured) , the guards had cloth patches sewn onto their uniforms. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

09-26-2006, 11:59 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I am glad that most of this topic was able to be restored and thanks to all who replaced their original post after it was accidently erased by some sleepy moderator Now for my question--Since this gun has a blank toggle and no chamber mark, In your collective opinions would this example also be considered a "sneak" variation? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-26-2006, 12:43 PM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	John, Ed is no longer on my Christmas card list... That question has been posed. The problem is that it is marked in several locations with the GEW3 stamp which is as yet unidentifed, except for Costanzo. Who says it is a Mauser factory stamp, but his discription is in doubt. It is also in 7,65 Parabellum caliber. So, is most likely a reworked commercial pistol. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

09-25-2006, 11:01 PM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Great Thread Ron!!! (again.. ) Don't ask me how I did that - I'll have to show Ed.. ) John D.

09-26-2006, 02:12 AM	#4
75BShooter User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: S.F. Bay Area Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Neat pictures from both Ron's..Thanks. Have seem a couple of Storchs at the Oshkosh Air Adventure. That's the plane Hitler's boys staged a Commando raid in the mountain resort in the Appenines to get Missolini out of harm way only to meet his end a few days later in Italy.

09-26-2006, 02:32 PM	#8
shadow User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down The Shore Posts: 245 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Ok, I will redo my original post, with some modifications. That is a nice plane and a nice airport, I stopped there once when ferrying a Piper Warrior from Tucson AZ to Atlantic City NJ. I'm glad to see we have several other pilots on the forum. 75BShooter, I go to EAA AirVenture, at Oshkosh every year. Perhaps I will see you there. Blue Skies!!!! Chris __________________ The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. George Washington

09-26-2006, 03:37 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Really neat Ron! For those of you who like this type of history,I just finished a great book on flying in 1930's Germany.."Flying is my Life" by Anna Reisch. She was one amazing Woman who rose to the top as a Nazi Test Pilot. During the closing days of the War in Berlin she flew a Feisler-Storch into Berlin as a passenger BEHIND and over the shoulder of the wounded and unconcious pilot. They were flying low and slow to be able to see the ground as the artillery fire was intense kicking up dust and Russian troops were able to shoot at the aircraft at will. Her feats of flying skill will put a lump in your throat. Quite an aircraft in the hands of such a Pilot. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-26-2006, 04:51 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Jerry, a descendent of Anna Reisch, is a member of this forum... although we haven't had her post in a couple of years... Her name is Hannah Reisch, and her screen name was Hannah... Hannah if you are still lurking... how about letting us know. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-26-2006, 05:19 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Well! That is AMAZING! Anna's dedication and skill to her chosen profession was spectacular to say the very least. Her experiences would be an inspiration to anyone and especially to a Woman. She surmounted and overcame many predjuidices in the 1930's that are now available to those who dream of the open skies...I would be interested to know how Hanna is related...Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-26-2006, 05:52 PM	#12
75BShooter User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: S.F. Bay Area Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Chris (AKA-Shadow) Yea, Oshkosh is neat. Been there since 88'. Has been a long flight out from Calif. in my Cherokee then the last few times in my Cardinal.

09-26-2006, 06:50 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Jerry, I was slightly mistaken... Her screen name was HannahR, and she hasn't posted since September of 2002. In that post, she reported that she had just moved to east Texas, and was the proud owner of a Bed and Breakfast... Don't know if that is still true, but here is the link she provided: http://www.threeoaks-marshall.com/index.html Hannah's membership dates back to almost the Taiwan days of this discussion board... she may even have been the first female member of the Lugerforum... to the best of my recollection she was a great niece of Anna Reisch... but you know how reliable recollection is at our age... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-26-2006, 10:46 PM	#14
shadow User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down The Shore Posts: 245 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	75BShooter, Hopefully Ill see you there next year! About 10 to 15 years ago I saw a documentary that included allot of information on Hanna Reitsch. The thing that stands out in my mind is her flying a helicopter inside a stadium. Chris __________________ The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. George Washington

09-26-2006, 11:42 PM	#15
75BShooter User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: S.F. Bay Area Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Chris, Check your PM...Tim (AKA) 75BShooter

09-28-2006, 01:55 AM	#16
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My sister's next door neighbor in Canberra Australia has a Storch that he was kind enough to share with me. he told me a story that the Storch was the plane that was used to rescue an ailing Hitler from Italy and return him safely to Deutchland. I have no comfirmation of this but he (Dennis) is a very sharp man and I have no reason to distrust hiom. Jack Hiles Mesa AZ __________________ Jack Hiles Mesa AZ

09-28-2006, 02:33 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Chris, Exactly right! She was the first pilot, Man or Woman to fly a helicopter in an enclosed building! Jack, No Kidding! Has he still got it? Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-12-2006, 06:19 PM	#18
ironcross4148 Guest Posts: n/a	Hanna Reitsch was a great female German test pilot in WWII. She was the only civilian to be awarded the Iron Cross by Hitler himself, and the Luftwaffe diamond clasp. Hanna flew the last plane out of Berlin before the Russians took the city. Wish I could have met her. Hope this helps.

10-12-2006, 07:07 PM	#19
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Her dedication and story should be an inspiration to Women around the World. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."