help on grip strap markings

norman · 11-05-2006, 03:22 PM

Hi all. Need some help to I.D. the markings on this luger. It has an L, a period, then what looks like a u and p, another period, then the number 75 and then another period. any info on what this is would be appreciated.
thanks
Norman

George Anderson · 11-05-2006, 05:21 PM

A better photo would be helpful. Also need details on the pistol; chamber date, maker, serian number. I believe a Cursive "L" indicates a Landsturm unit.

Ron Smith · 11-05-2006, 08:30 PM

As George said,
A clearer photo would help. The only Military transaltion that I can come up with is a remote possibilty.

Landsturm Unteroffizierschule Potsdam weapon # 25 ( Landsturm Non-Commissioned Officers school at Potsdam.)

Ron

norman · 11-06-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by George Anderson
A better photo would be helpful. Also need details on the pistol; chamber date, maker, serian number. I believe a Cursive "L" indicates a Landsturm unit.

Sorry for the fuzzy pic, best my camera could do. The pistol is a mismatch.
There is no chamber markings at all, the toggle is a DWM but the two digit number has been stippled out, all small parts are numbered 14 and the serial number on the frame and barrel is 2114 u. Unfortunatly, it is also import marked on bbl top line reads "LUGER P08 9MM GERMANY" and bottom line reads "C.A.I. ST. ALB. VT" On right side of bbl is the top part of an eagle. the proof marks are almost gone as the gun has been refinished. There are two eagles the first you can just see the eagle (barely) and the second one has what appears to be "aa66" under the eagle and the third proof looks like an acorn on its side. it is deeper than the other two and no detail is visible, just an outline. So, do I have a WW II frame and a WW I toggle? Oh yeah the safety is marked GESICHERT and the extractor is marked GELADEN. I also replaced the grips with a set of repo wooden ones as it came with a set of mother of pearl grips. A real pimp gun for sure. Hope I havent left anything out and gave enough info for you guys. It shoots like a dream and would like to know more about the old thing.
Thanks for taking the time to ansewer all the questions and have a great day.
Norman

Ron Smith · 11-06-2006, 11:35 AM

Norman,

You have either a Russian capture or a VOPO East German Police rework. If a VOPO with Mauser frame, the markings could be, and most likely are East German police marks, which are usually unknown.

Some well known collectors feel that the VOPOs are going to be collectable in their own catagory in the near future. So maintain it, in it's present configuration. The unit marked ones are not all that common.

Ron

norman · 11-06-2006, 03:22 PM

Ron and George,
I finally found my Sony digital camera and took these pics of the markings

Here are the proofs on right side

The bbl markings and import stamp

The toggle markings, with the number dimpled out. looks like 83 or 85

Someone thoughtfully scratched 74 into the sideplate

Thanks for all the information so far and if you can find anything else please let me know. Thanks
Hey Ron---are you also on the P-38 PP,PPK forum. Your avatar looks familiar

George Anderson · 11-06-2006, 04:34 PM

I think it might be rural police for the Prussian Opeln district during the Weimar period. Police markings are an area of which I have only a pedestrian knowledge.

Don M · 11-06-2006, 09:41 PM

Norman,

With the exception of the script L, this has all the indications of one of the Lugers purchased in 1929 to rearm the LandjÃ?Â¤gerei, the rural constabulary of Prussia. It is a 29 DWM in the u block with WaA66 proofs. It had a sear safety before the Russians got ahold of it. I agree with George that it looks like the Oppeln district (Op.), which would be consistent with Russian capture.

Could we see a photo of the left side of the gun showing the trigger and the frame above the left grip to see if there was once a mag safety?

If this is a LandjÃ?Â¤gerei Luger, it is the only one of many that I have seen that used script letters in the marking.

Dwight Gruber · 11-06-2006, 10:54 PM

Don,

In the picture of the center toggle link you can see that a sear safety has been removed. The electro-pencilled number on the sideplate is one characteristic of the E. German reworks.

--Dwight

norman · 11-07-2006, 11:44 AM

Here is some more pics of the left side.

Saw this on the toggle. Anyone know what this is?

Another toggle pic.

And this one on the grip screw.

Again thanks to all who have replied. I never knew there were so many different variations to all these lugers. I only have one handbook "The Luger Handbook" by Aarron Davis. It is a good guide but a lot of things arent covered. As this is my only luger, and the prices are going up, up and up, it will probably be my only luger. I have had 3 lugers. The first was an Erfurt, bought way back when for 100.00. Sold it for 75.00. (I know, stupid, stupid, stupid but back then they were all over the place)
The second was a S/42 that I made a small profit on. Shoulda kept that one, but...... And this one. This one I will keep.

Don M · 11-07-2006, 04:31 PM

Norman,

The cut in the frame above the left grip indicates it once had a mag safety installed, as well. The LandjÃ?Â¤gerei were very thorough in adding both types of safeties, adding to the probability that this was one of theirs before capture by the Russians. The script L remains an anomaly.

I looked in my database and have only one other LandjÃ?Â¤gerei Luger from this district, sn 2688u marked L.Op.120. There is no other information available to determine if this one had a script L.

The toggle train has been replaced with what appears to have been from a Prussian Imperial DWM.

I will be writing a book on German police unit markings and would very much like to include a photo of this grip strap mark. If you are willing, I will need to know your last name to credit you unless you wish to remain anonymous. If you prefer not to disclose your last name on the forum, you may email me at the address below. Thanks very much.

Lugerdoc · 11-08-2006, 11:01 AM

Norman, I agree with Don. One more thing, your grip screws are E/6 Simson marked and may be of interest to some Forum member who may need them for a real Simson. You can replace these with new repros for about $4 each. TH

norman · 11-08-2006, 12:14 PM

Hi Tom,
Only one is so marked. The other one is just a plain old unmarked screw. Thanks for the info. Any idea what the mark on the toggle is? Thanks
Norman

Don M
The extractor on the toggle is also marked 14. Does this mean whoever changed the toggle put in the original extractor? Thanks
Norman

11-05-2006, 03:22 PM	#1
norman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Liberal, Kansas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	help on grip strap markings Hi all. Need some help to I.D. the markings on this luger. It has an L, a period, then what looks like a u and p, another period, then the number 75 and then another period. any info on what this is would be appreciated. thanks Norman

11-05-2006, 08:30 PM	#3
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	As George said, A clearer photo would help. The only Military transaltion that I can come up with is a remote possibilty. Landsturm Unteroffizierschule Potsdam weapon # 25 ( Landsturm Non-Commissioned Officers school at Potsdam.) Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-06-2006, 11:35 AM	#5
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Norman, You have either a Russian capture or a VOPO East German Police rework. If a VOPO with Mauser frame, the markings could be, and most likely are East German police marks, which are usually unknown. Some well known collectors feel that the VOPOs are going to be collectable in their own catagory in the near future. So maintain it, in it's present configuration. The unit marked ones are not all that common. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-06-2006, 09:41 PM	#8
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Norman, With the exception of the script L, this has all the indications of one of the Lugers purchased in 1929 to rearm the LandjÃ?Â¤gerei, the rural constabulary of Prussia. It is a 29 DWM in the u block with WaA66 proofs. It had a sear safety before the Russians got ahold of it. I agree with George that it looks like the Oppeln district (Op.), which would be consistent with Russian capture. Could we see a photo of the left side of the gun showing the trigger and the frame above the left grip to see if there was once a mag safety? If this is a LandjÃ?Â¤gerei Luger, it is the only one of many that I have seen that used script letters in the marking. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

11-07-2006, 04:31 PM	#11
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Norman, The cut in the frame above the left grip indicates it once had a mag safety installed, as well. The LandjÃ?Â¤gerei were very thorough in adding both types of safeties, adding to the probability that this was one of theirs before capture by the Russians. The script L remains an anomaly. I looked in my database and have only one other LandjÃ?Â¤gerei Luger from this district, sn 2688u marked L.Op.120. There is no other information available to determine if this one had a script L. The toggle train has been replaced with what appears to have been from a Prussian Imperial DWM. I will be writing a book on German police unit markings and would very much like to include a photo of this grip strap mark. If you are willing, I will need to know your last name to credit you unless you wish to remain anonymous. If you prefer not to disclose your last name on the forum, you may email me at the address below. Thanks very much. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

11-05-2006, 05:21 PM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	A better photo would be helpful. Also need details on the pistol; chamber date, maker, serian number. I believe a Cursive "L" indicates a Landsturm unit.

11-06-2006, 03:22 PM	#6
norman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Liberal, Kansas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron and George, I finally found my Sony digital camera and took these pics of the markings Here are the proofs on right side The bbl markings and import stamp The toggle markings, with the number dimpled out. looks like 83 or 85 Someone thoughtfully scratched 74 into the sideplate Thanks for all the information so far and if you can find anything else please let me know. Thanks Hey Ron---are you also on the P-38 PP,PPK forum. Your avatar looks familiar

11-06-2006, 04:34 PM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	I think it might be rural police for the Prussian Opeln district during the Weimar period. Police markings are an area of which I have only a pedestrian knowledge.

11-06-2006, 10:54 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Don, In the picture of the center toggle link you can see that a sear safety has been removed. The electro-pencilled number on the sideplate is one characteristic of the E. German reworks. --Dwight

11-07-2006, 11:44 AM	#10
norman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Liberal, Kansas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is some more pics of the left side. Saw this on the toggle. Anyone know what this is? Another toggle pic. And this one on the grip screw. Again thanks to all who have replied. I never knew there were so many different variations to all these lugers. I only have one handbook "The Luger Handbook" by Aarron Davis. It is a good guide but a lot of things arent covered. As this is my only luger, and the prices are going up, up and up, it will probably be my only luger. I have had 3 lugers. The first was an Erfurt, bought way back when for 100.00. Sold it for 75.00. (I know, stupid, stupid, stupid but back then they were all over the place) The second was a S/42 that I made a small profit on. Shoulda kept that one, but...... And this one. This one I will keep.

11-08-2006, 11:01 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Norman, I agree with Don. One more thing, your grip screws are E/6 Simson marked and may be of interest to some Forum member who may need them for a real Simson. You can replace these with new repros for about $4 each. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

11-08-2006, 12:14 PM	#13
norman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Liberal, Kansas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	grip screws Hi Tom, Only one is so marked. The other one is just a plain old unmarked screw. Thanks for the info. Any idea what the mark on the toggle is? Thanks Norman Don M The extractor on the toggle is also marked 14. Does this mean whoever changed the toggle put in the original extractor? Thanks Norman