Lugers & Hollowpoints

davidkachel · 11-21-2006, 08:15 PM

Among the many problems I've had with my _#&*%@) Mitchell Luger is...

Loading Winchester 115 gr JHP's into the magazine causes the rounds to jam within the magazine itself when shooting. The mag can be loaded, but then the follower and spring cannot successfully push them up as needed. It looks as though the front edge of the rounds are catching on some part of the inside face of the mag.

Is this a common problem with all/most Luger mags or is it just another one of the joys of owning a Mitchell?
I do have an aftermarket mag that doesn't have this problem.

thegundude · 11-21-2006, 09:11 PM

It's been my experience that many semi autos, particularly older models, don't really like anything other than standard military ball ammo.

But that's just been my experience. User results may vary, not valid in all states, registered FDIC of the CIO...

davidkachel · 11-21-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thegundude
It's been my experience that many semi autos, particularly older models, don't really like anything other than standard military ball ammo.

But that's just been my experience. User results may vary, not valid in all states, registered FDIC of the CIO...

In this case, it's not the Luger, it's the magazine.
The Luger has been throated and will even feed an empty case.
The rounds jam in the magazine. That is, they do not rise up into position.
So my question is about Luger mags, rather than Lugers.

Edward Tinker · 11-21-2006, 09:28 PM

Same thing... these guns and their magazines were not made for hollow points.

Unless I am using them as a defensive round, then I use ball ammo...

thegundude · 11-21-2006, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
Same thing... these guns and their magazines were not made for hollow points.

Unless I am using them as a defensive round, then I use ball ammo...

Thanks for clarifying, Ed. That was my point exactly...

davidkachel · 11-21-2006, 09:47 PM

So, as I infer, this mag problem is not unique to the Mitchell mags, but original Luger mags as well?

thegundude · 11-21-2006, 10:04 PM

David, you really got me wondering if what I assumed was true. So...

I just got back from the vault. I tried several different types of 9mm hollowpoints (I don't have any HP .30) in several different types of Luger mags. It seemed as thought the Mec-Gar mags accepted the HP rounds very well and the standard Luger mags, three that I tested anyway, had a bit of a hangup while feeding. I didn't try to cycle them through but it does show that the newer mags SEEM to accept them more readily.

This is, of course, just an unscientific sampling...

In short, I still don't know for sure...

shadow · 11-21-2006, 10:32 PM

David,

I did a search on this site for hollowpoints and found other posts that describe the same exact problem with hollow points using regular luger magazines. There were also some posts that indicate that some brands of hollowpoints would feed in some magazines. I never tried to feed an empty case in my luger but my 1911 will feed an empty case every time.

Hope this helps.

Chris

davidkachel · 11-22-2006, 12:04 AM

Sounds pretty conclusive to me. I find it much easier to accept that Luger mags in general do not like hollow points in general rather than that there is yet another defect with this Mitchell Luger.
Thanks much guys for taking the time. It is appreciated.
This forum is really quite incredible.
(I wish I had a "vault" to go to. It sounds so much cooler than "gun safe". <grin>)

Parabellus · 11-22-2006, 02:09 AM

Hi folks,
FWIW
I read all this and had to find out. I went to my little (big enough for two Lugers and a Broomhandle) mini-safe and got my Lugers and three mags: Mec-Gar, original wood-base, and original aluminum-base with a stiffer spring than the others. I loaded each with the 9mm JHPs I had picked up awhile back (never tried before). I then cycled each one by hand with generally good results. All three mags feed well with both the 1920 Commercial Police Luger and the 1917 Artillery Luger.
I'm still not so confident they will work when fired through the 1920 because it only cycles reliably with 124gr or heavier slugs. My guess is the HPs are 115gr or less. CMIIW.

Russell

Edward Tinker · 11-22-2006, 10:47 AM

Russell, from experience on my side, my artillery will feed almost anything, she is a shooter!

Other lugers I have tried sometimes feed anything, but mostly have trouble, and this many times with plain ole hard ball military...

ed

Lugerdoc · 11-22-2006, 11:41 AM

It's possible that the overall length of your HP ammo is too short and the rounds are "cocking" in the mag under follower spring pressure. Try to find a different brand that is the same OAL as your ball ammo. TH

davidkachel · 11-22-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lugerdoc
It's possible that the overall length of your HP ammo is too short and the rounds are "cocking" in the mag under follower spring pressure. Try to find a different brand that is the same OAL as your ball ammo. TH

Based on this suggestion, I checked. The JHP's are 1.5 mm shorter.
Verrry interesthting!

thegundude · 11-22-2006, 02:42 PM

Okay. Just for the heck of it I checked to see if my Mec-Gar will feed a .44 magnum round, and it won't... It won't even come close to fitting nevermind cycling.

I hope this helps...

davidkachel · 11-22-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thegundude
Okay. Just for the heck of it I checked to see if my Mec-Gar will feed a .44 magnum round, and it won't... It won't even come close to fitting nevermind cycling.

I hope this helps...

Try a .50 cal.

11-21-2006, 08:15 PM	#1
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Lugers & Hollowpoints Among the many problems I've had with my _#&*%@) Mitchell Luger is... Loading Winchester 115 gr JHP's into the magazine causes the rounds to jam within the magazine itself when shooting. The mag can be loaded, but then the follower and spring cannot successfully push them up as needed. It looks as though the front edge of the rounds are catching on some part of the inside face of the mag. Is this a common problem with all/most Luger mags or is it just another one of the joys of owning a Mitchell? I do have an aftermarket mag that doesn't have this problem.

11-21-2006, 09:11 PM	#2
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	It's been my experience that many semi autos, particularly older models, don't really like anything other than standard military ball ammo. But that's just been my experience. User results may vary, not valid in all states, registered FDIC of the CIO... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

11-21-2006, 09:28 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Same thing... these guns and their magazines were not made for hollow points. Unless I am using them as a defensive round, then I use ball ammo... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-21-2006, 09:47 PM	#6
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	So, as I infer, this mag problem is not unique to the Mitchell mags, but original Luger mags as well? __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-21-2006, 10:04 PM	#7
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	David, you really got me wondering if what I assumed was true. So... I just got back from the vault. I tried several different types of 9mm hollowpoints (I don't have any HP .30) in several different types of Luger mags. It seemed as thought the Mec-Gar mags accepted the HP rounds very well and the standard Luger mags, three that I tested anyway, had a bit of a hangup while feeding. I didn't try to cycle them through but it does show that the newer mags SEEM to accept them more readily. This is, of course, just an unscientific sampling... In short, I still don't know for sure... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

11-21-2006, 10:32 PM	#8
shadow User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down The Shore Posts: 245 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	David, I did a search on this site for hollowpoints and found other posts that describe the same exact problem with hollow points using regular luger magazines. There were also some posts that indicate that some brands of hollowpoints would feed in some magazines. I never tried to feed an empty case in my luger but my 1911 will feed an empty case every time. Hope this helps. Chris __________________ The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. George Washington

11-22-2006, 12:04 AM	#9
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Sounds pretty conclusive to me. I find it much easier to accept that Luger mags in general do not like hollow points in general rather than that there is yet another defect with this Mitchell Luger. Thanks much guys for taking the time. It is appreciated. This forum is really quite incredible. (I wish I had a "vault" to go to. It sounds so much cooler than "gun safe". <grin>) __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-22-2006, 02:09 AM	#10
Parabellus User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Posts: 195 Thanks: 16 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Hi folks, FWIW I read all this and had to find out. I went to my little (big enough for two Lugers and a Broomhandle) mini-safe and got my Lugers and three mags: Mec-Gar, original wood-base, and original aluminum-base with a stiffer spring than the others. I loaded each with the 9mm JHPs I had picked up awhile back (never tried before). I then cycled each one by hand with generally good results. All three mags feed well with both the 1920 Commercial Police Luger and the 1917 Artillery Luger. I'm still not so confident they will work when fired through the 1920 because it only cycles reliably with 124gr or heavier slugs. My guess is the HPs are 115gr or less. CMIIW. Russell __________________

11-22-2006, 10:47 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Russell, from experience on my side, my artillery will feed almost anything, she is a shooter! Other lugers I have tried sometimes feed anything, but mostly have trouble, and this many times with plain ole hard ball military... ed

11-22-2006, 11:41 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	It's possible that the overall length of your HP ammo is too short and the rounds are "cocking" in the mag under follower spring pressure. Try to find a different brand that is the same OAL as your ball ammo. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

11-22-2006, 02:42 PM	#14
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Okay. Just for the heck of it I checked to see if my Mec-Gar will feed a .44 magnum round, and it won't... It won't even come close to fitting nevermind cycling. I hope this helps... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve