German shotgun expert needed!

[lugerholsterrepair]

I have the most fantastic German shotgun I have ever seen! Engraved by what must be the World's best engraver. Bought in Germany in the late 40's I aquired it from an 85 year old Veteran. I can find no maker mark on it although it is serialed and German Eagle N proofed. I would like to know from the lockwork who might have made it.
If anyone out there can direct me to an expert on German shotguns I would appreciate it.
Thanks, Jerry Burney

[Vlim]

Hi Jerry,

Although not a shotgun specialist, I'm sitting on quite some era documentation. If you have an image, I can try so see if I can come up with a possible candidate.

[pipeman45]

Please. Don't get us all worked up and not post any pictures.

[lugerholsterrepair]

You fellows are quite right, I will try to post some photo's today. Jerry
Burney

[lugerholsterrepair]

Gentlemen, For those few of you who might want to view a couple of photo's go to this link. Jerry Burney

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=69667209

[wlyon]

Jerry , I have no idea who made this and I don't care if he is English, German or from Mars ,that is one fine looking shotgun. Hope your sale goes well. Bill

[lugerholsterrepair]

Thanks Bill..I just got some information from Dave K on Jan's Forum. Appears this is either a Merkel or a Simson.
I guess I would have to say it might not be a Simson as they were out of business when this was made in 45-47? Any ideas on that theory?

http://www.hallowellco.com/double_kersten_locks.htm

This link shows my lock exactly.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Tac, Thanks for your note. The date stamp under the foregrip is March 1945. Jerry,

your shotgun has been engraved by Karl Kolb in Suhl.
He lived there from 1884- 1961.
You can recognize exactly the same subject of birds on the stock.
Probably he is working on your gun.

Source: "Suhler Waffenkunst", by H.J.Fritze and P.Arfmann, Suhl 1998

I think the shotgun was made by Gebr�¼der Merkel.
The formarm design with screws on both sides are typical for Merkel.


Heinrich


http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11302







Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Tac, only a slight add;

Simson founders escaped from Germany in mid 1930's after being brought up on charges of over-charging the gov't, the gov't lost, but they knew their time was up and left (after losing their governance of the company).


The machinery / tooling went to Krieghoff that used parts and tooling until they made their own. (note; Simson Lugers were no longer made because the contract was finished, not because they were no longer allowed to be made).

The company Simson still existed during WW2 and made other guns, parts etc, just not as Simson (although later they made shotguns etc with their name attached).


Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

Another opinion!

IF I WAS A BETTING MAN I WOULD PUT MY MONEY ON BSW/GUSTLOFF (OLD SIMSON COMPANY). PROBABLY CUSTOM MADE FOR KH & LK. STILL AMAZES ME TO SEE NON-COMBAT WEAPONS MADE THIS LATE!!!!
PRETTY PIECE.
BOB

Tac, Ya went up like a puff of smoke! I am always interested in the opinions of others. Right or wrong it maintains a thread and direction of research. Instills questions and ideas in others.
I wish you had not deleted your posts!
Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Tac, I have noticed that if we disagree you have deleted your postings recently. That was not my intention, you had a LOT of good info there...



Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

In my excitement about the wonderfull post by Heinrich and his help on this shotgun I have done everything but thank him for this. Heinrich, I do want to apologize for this delay. I know from personal experience it is difficult and time consuming to provide others with such a service. I am asked constantly for similar services concerning holsters and am for the most part happy to do it BUT I am often amazed that the recipients do not offer a simple thank you. I have been found guilty of such rude behavior here and please accept my sincere apology and thanks for your excellent research.
The 85 year old Veteran who has this shotgun, bought it in Germany in 1947 was giddy when I showed him your photo's. He had taken this gun to anyone who would look at it for many years and no one could tell him anything about it. You were the first.
He is traveling to Germany this Summer to relive his experiences there as a young man. I hope he finds what he is looking for.
Heinrich, Once again I do appreciate what you did. Many thanks, Jerry Burney

[Vlim]

Hi,

I compared the photos to the AKAH catalogue I have lying around. The closest one is a Simson shotgun, shows intricate engraving like yours. The Simsons can be identified by a small logo above the serial number on the barrel lug.

Curiously enough, the Merkels shown in the AKAH catalogue differ from the design of your shotgun.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Gerben, Thank you very much! David Kemp has indicated as well that this could be a Simson.
What does the small logo above the serial number on the barrel lug look like?
Thanks, Jerry Burney.