German Officers Pistol

AmericanPowerHouse · 07-20-2007, 01:49 AM

My grandfather, god rest his soul, brought back a P08 from WWII. He claimed he had taken it from th body of a german officer. I am trying to find out as much about it as possible. It is nickle plated and has the Nazi ensignia(eagle and swaztika) printed on the side of it 3 times and 1 more time on the barrel. It has black plastic grips and the letters byf engraved across the top. The plating is original though it has corroded a little because of the holster it was once stored in. Can anyone tell me about this weapon?

AmericanPowerHouse · 07-20-2007, 01:51 AM

That picture is not the actual picture, though it is almost identicle with the exception of the clear plexi glass handles. You can clearly see the insignias on the side.

Edward Tinker · 07-20-2007, 03:37 AM

Travis, welcome to the forum. Actual information is needed to help. Its serial number, suffix and markings. And a picture of it, rather than one like it.

byf's is the code for Mauser, so we can say it was made by them, however, it should also have a date stamp, most likely it is a byf 41 or byf 42?

Lugers were never made originally in nickle, it was very common to have GI's nickle or chrome them immediatly after the war.

ed

the gunman · 07-20-2007, 09:31 AM

Is that a bluge in the barrel . Or just light from camara angle..?

RBorecky · 07-20-2007, 09:43 AM

I was just going to say the same thingas I noticed the buldge . Rick B

Edward Tinker · 07-20-2007, 09:53 AM

it might be, but this isn't a picture of his gun...

Quentin · 07-20-2007, 10:09 PM

Well whoever owns the one pictured sure has a problem! That's gotta be a bulge.

AmericanPowerHouse · 07-20-2007, 10:35 PM

It has a 41 engraved on it. If it was plated by the officer or his superiors, does that increase or decrease it's value. FYI All the parts on the gun are original. Also, does anyone ever have a problem with their Luger jamming.?

Edward Tinker · 07-20-2007, 10:54 PM

Chroming or nickle was done by US GI's, it was never done by the german military. It reduces collector value to shooter value ($450-$600)...

AmericanPowerHouse · 07-20-2007, 11:59 PM

My grandfather passed it down to my father just how he found it. My father told me that my grandfather had never hade it plated. Is it possible that it could be a ceramonial weapon?

Edward Tinker · 07-21-2007, 12:02 AM

no

We get asked this a lot. Sometimes gramps doesn't remember he traded a carton of cigs for it while over there. Or that he had it done a few monhts to a 1 year after he got home (it was a lot of years ago). He may very well have gotten it from a GI who picked it up and had it done. GI's were trading and having stuff like this done, including engraving for cheap, a packet of cigs for nice nickleing...

There were NO nickle or chromed lugers carried by soliders or officers in WW1 or WW2....

PS: There is a "belief" by many folks that lugers always came from an officer. Wrong, many enlisted had lugers, p38's etc....

There is a belief that officers officers had nickle plated... Wrong

There is a beliefe that Navy officers had ncikle to prevent rustings... Wrong...

RBorecky · 07-21-2007, 01:01 AM

You might as well walk around with a Mirror and signal flag if they issued it that way. That is why all guns were dark then America parked to stop reflection. After the war there were no proud Germans to show off there weapons as they were frowned apon. Rick B

AmericanPowerHouse · 07-21-2007, 04:40 AM

Can anyone tell me about the Eagle and swazstika stamps that are on it?

Edward Tinker · 07-21-2007, 09:27 AM

give us more info. You said this is NOT a picture of it, so, there were different markings, different years, different inspectors.

If you'd like some further feedback, how about giving us some information. See sidebar on the left under technical pages, you can fill out and then give us the proofs, acceptance, how it is marked etc.

What are you trying to find out? If you just want to know why they are there, then that is easy, they are proof and acceptance markings.

Steinar · 07-27-2007, 09:18 AM

Since this seems to be a dead-end road, with no pictures or info of the gun in question.. perhaps someone can explain the bulge on the barrel? I'm curious to learn how that can happen to a pistol

Vlim · 07-27-2007, 09:40 AM

Hi Steinar,

Simply a matter of pushing enough lead in the barrel. Thus round one gets stuck in the barrel and round two, three and maybe four try to push it even further.

I had a .30 luger barrel with the same visible bulge after a somewhat unsuccesful reloader had tried his luck with it. A round got stuck en two more round were fired before he noticed what happened...

apis mellifera · 07-27-2007, 11:25 AM

Is it possible it's been deactivated with a barrel insert?

lugerholsterrepair · 07-28-2007, 11:33 AM

Tac, I would say shooting a 9MM in a .30 would be virtually impossible. One, the 9mm bullet will bottom out in the chamber far enough back to prevent the toggle from coming into battery. With the toggle in a fairly severe up position the fireing pin would be pulled back from the bolt face and in no position whatever to come forward to detonate a cartridge. If..and I think it would be impossible, a 9MM were to be detonated in the chamber in this unsupported position, it would rupture in the chamber. I just don't believe it's something that could be accomplished. The reason I am so positive is, I just tried it. Jerry Burney

Rod WMG · 07-28-2007, 06:22 PM

I realize we're getting off track, but I once spoke to the Speer tech by phone (he's now retired) and he spoke of a revolver shipped back to them for exam. The guy was shooting and saw no holes on the paper. He assumed misses and kept on firing. Apparently he even reloaded. When the barrel was cross-sectioned, it revealed so many bullets stacked up in the barrel that the last one was sticking out of the forcing cone enough to stop the cylinder's rotation.

That was kinda scary to me.

Steinar · 07-30-2007, 05:41 AM

The good old military way of avoiding silly things to happen, it to make it fool proof. Not difficult to do wrong, but totally impossible

Like having the same type of fuel for planes, cars, tanks and even cooking apparatus. Come to think of it.. I have some cloudy remembrance of a drink with the same name as the fuel in some military bars, F34 they called it.

Anyway, I think it's quite amazing.. 1, that it's possible to leave so much lead remains in the barrel that it makes a significant obstacle. 2, that it's possible to make so weak loads that it does not even spit the bullet out the barrel, with lead or not.. 3, that with all the sparks, smoke and other alarming signs, trigger is still being pulled. But IÃ¢??m still quite new when it comes to pistol shooting..

07-20-2007, 01:49 AM	#1
AmericanPowerHouse User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	German Officers Pistol My grandfather, god rest his soul, brought back a P08 from WWII. He claimed he had taken it from th body of a german officer. I am trying to find out as much about it as possible. It is nickle plated and has the Nazi ensignia(eagle and swaztika) printed on the side of it 3 times and 1 more time on the barrel. It has black plastic grips and the letters byf engraved across the top. The plating is original though it has corroded a little because of the holster it was once stored in. Can anyone tell me about this weapon? Attached Thumbnails

07-20-2007, 03:37 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Travis, welcome to the forum. Actual information is needed to help. Its serial number, suffix and markings. And a picture of it, rather than one like it. byf's is the code for Mauser, so we can say it was made by them, however, it should also have a date stamp, most likely it is a byf 41 or byf 42? Lugers were never made originally in nickle, it was very common to have GI's nickle or chrome them immediatly after the war. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-20-2007, 09:53 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	it might be, but this isn't a picture of his gun... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-20-2007, 10:54 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Chroming or nickle was done by US GI's, it was never done by the german military. It reduces collector value to shooter value ($450-$600)... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-21-2007, 12:02 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	no We get asked this a lot. Sometimes gramps doesn't remember he traded a carton of cigs for it while over there. Or that he had it done a few monhts to a 1 year after he got home (it was a lot of years ago). He may very well have gotten it from a GI who picked it up and had it done. GI's were trading and having stuff like this done, including engraving for cheap, a packet of cigs for nice nickleing... There were NO nickle or chromed lugers carried by soliders or officers in WW1 or WW2.... PS: There is a "belief" by many folks that lugers always came from an officer. Wrong, many enlisted had lugers, p38's etc.... There is a belief that officers officers had nickle plated... Wrong There is a beliefe that Navy officers had ncikle to prevent rustings... Wrong... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-20-2007, 01:51 AM	#2
AmericanPowerHouse User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That picture is not the actual picture, though it is almost identicle with the exception of the clear plexi glass handles. You can clearly see the insignias on the side.

07-20-2007, 09:31 AM	#4
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Is that a bluge in the barrel . Or just light from camara angle..?

07-20-2007, 09:43 AM	#5
RBorecky User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was just going to say the same thingas I noticed the buldge . Rick B

07-20-2007, 10:09 PM	#7
Quentin User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 124 Thanks: 59 Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts	Well whoever owns the one pictured sure has a problem! That's gotta be a bulge.

07-20-2007, 10:35 PM	#8
AmericanPowerHouse User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It has a 41 engraved on it. If it was plated by the officer or his superiors, does that increase or decrease it's value. FYI All the parts on the gun are original. Also, does anyone ever have a problem with their Luger jamming.?

07-20-2007, 11:59 PM	#10
AmericanPowerHouse User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My grandfather passed it down to my father just how he found it. My father told me that my grandfather had never hade it plated. Is it possible that it could be a ceramonial weapon?

07-21-2007, 01:01 AM	#12
RBorecky User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You might as well walk around with a Mirror and signal flag if they issued it that way. That is why all guns were dark then America parked to stop reflection. After the war there were no proud Germans to show off there weapons as they were frowned apon. Rick B

07-21-2007, 04:40 AM	#13
AmericanPowerHouse User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Can anyone tell me about the Eagle and swazstika stamps that are on it?

07-21-2007, 09:27 AM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	give us more info. You said this is NOT a picture of it, so, there were different markings, different years, different inspectors. If you'd like some further feedback, how about giving us some information. See sidebar on the left under technical pages, you can fill out and then give us the proofs, acceptance, how it is marked etc. What are you trying to find out? If you just want to know why they are there, then that is easy, they are proof and acceptance markings. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-27-2007, 09:18 AM	#15
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Since this seems to be a dead-end road, with no pictures or info of the gun in question.. perhaps someone can explain the bulge on the barrel? I'm curious to learn how that can happen to a pistol __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

07-27-2007, 09:40 AM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Steinar, Simply a matter of pushing enough lead in the barrel. Thus round one gets stuck in the barrel and round two, three and maybe four try to push it even further. I had a .30 luger barrel with the same visible bulge after a somewhat unsuccesful reloader had tried his luck with it. A round got stuck en two more round were fired before he noticed what happened...

07-27-2007, 11:25 AM	#17
apis mellifera User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WV Posts: 149 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Is it possible it's been deactivated with a barrel insert?

07-28-2007, 11:33 AM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Tac, I would say shooting a 9MM in a .30 would be virtually impossible. One, the 9mm bullet will bottom out in the chamber far enough back to prevent the toggle from coming into battery. With the toggle in a fairly severe up position the fireing pin would be pulled back from the bolt face and in no position whatever to come forward to detonate a cartridge. If..and I think it would be impossible, a 9MM were to be detonated in the chamber in this unsupported position, it would rupture in the chamber. I just don't believe it's something that could be accomplished. The reason I am so positive is, I just tried it. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-28-2007, 06:22 PM	#19
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I realize we're getting off track, but I once spoke to the Speer tech by phone (he's now retired) and he spoke of a revolver shipped back to them for exam. The guy was shooting and saw no holes on the paper. He assumed misses and kept on firing. Apparently he even reloaded. When the barrel was cross-sectioned, it revealed so many bullets stacked up in the barrel that the last one was sticking out of the forcing cone enough to stop the cylinder's rotation. That was kinda scary to me.

07-30-2007, 05:41 AM	#20
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	The good old military way of avoiding silly things to happen, it to make it fool proof. Not difficult to do wrong, but totally impossible Like having the same type of fuel for planes, cars, tanks and even cooking apparatus. Come to think of it.. I have some cloudy remembrance of a drink with the same name as the fuel in some military bars, F34 they called it. Anyway, I think it's quite amazing.. 1, that it's possible to leave so much lead remains in the barrel that it makes a significant obstacle. 2, that it's possible to make so weak loads that it does not even spit the bullet out the barrel, with lead or not.. 3, that with all the sparks, smoke and other alarming signs, trigger is still being pulled. But IÃ¢??m still quite new when it comes to pistol shooting.. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane