Waffen Ss Grips

fantomark · 07-31-2007, 10:42 AM

CIAO from Italy.

Just one question for you Military Luger Gurus!

I have just purchased my second (and last - Italian regulations only allow 3 Pistols, unless you have a special collector licence!) P08.

As you can see, the grips are decorated with a SS logo (on both sides)

Pistol is dated 1938 and is a Mauser (S/42)
caliber is 9X21 (converted from 9 Para, which is illegal in Italy.)

I am puzzled about the small SS logos on the grips (which I partly covered in the attached photo to avoid hurting the feeling of any Nazi regalia sensitive members)

Are any special WAFFEN SS logos known to have existed, or can they be just a later add-on "embellishment" ?

Thanks in advance to all WWII LUGER gurus out there!!

Ciao!

Fantomark:

Steinar · 07-31-2007, 11:02 AM

In danger of proclaiming myself as a guru by answering to your question, the SS mark is most likely a post war add on.
Either to increase the value or just to make it look nicer.
Congratulations with it!

George Anderson · 07-31-2007, 11:15 AM

The SS insignia appears to be an SS member's lapel pin with the pin removed. This type of embellishment of pistols and holsters was very common on the trophies brought home by American soldiers.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-31-2007, 03:01 PM

Translation for those who are language challenged...

Mister Fantomark - for favor you remember that from the duration the Armies Allied were capturing soldiers German in the large amount, there was a grievous habit of soldiers hunts some Waffen SS, instead of to do them in prisoners.

Some soldier German that was found to be carrying a pronounced article with the sign of SS was responsible to to be fired with his hands in the air.

This gun is, without some doubt, a gun that was, like we say, 'puffed.'

Much respectful greetings -

Ron Wood · 07-31-2007, 03:53 PM

Ha! That automated translation is almost as unreadable as the original Italian! The "puffed" comes across loud and clear however.

Sieger · 07-31-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley
Signore Fantomark - per favore ricordi che dalla durata gli Eserciti Alleati stavano catturando soldati tedeschi nei grandi ammontari, c'era un'abitudine dolorosa di soldati caccia del Waffen SS, invece di farli in prigionieri.

Alcun soldato tedesco che fu trovato stare portando un articolo marcato con l'insegna di SS era responsabile per essere sparato con le sue mani nell'aria.

Questa pistola Ã?Â¨, senza alcun dubbio, una pistola che Ã?Â¨ stata, come noi diciamo, 'puffed.'

Tanti saluti rispettosi -

tac

Dear Tac:

How many languages do you speak? German, Italian, what else.

Sieger

Edward Tinker · 07-31-2007, 06:04 PM

Sieger, he is an amazing linguiest (sp

) and has a total grasp of 6 or 8 languages and then must know bits and pieces of many others (this is just from me being dumbfounded at his easy grasp of them I've seen on the forum). I am sure that Tac will answer his self

amazingly enough, he even knows the Queens English

Ed

Balder · 07-31-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Dear Tac:

How many languages do you speak? German, Italian, what else.

Sieger

Jeg fÃ?Â¸ler meg mer enn rimelig trygg pÃ?Â¥ at han ikke snakker norsk, men at han sikkert klarer Ã?Â¥ fÃ?Â¥ dette oversatt pÃ?Â¥ ett eller annet vis. Og Steinar - ikke hjelp ham!

Sorry guys, couldn't help.

Balder

RBorecky · 07-31-2007, 07:10 PM

What is wrong with SS?? It stands for Super Sport doesnt it??

I Kid, I kid. Rick B

RylanBrissette · 07-31-2007, 09:29 PM

I am all most sensitive to the Nazi's war crimes commited by some during the war. But I can't imagine how blotting out half an image prevents people from seeing it.. Honestly some people get carried away. It's not like they don't know what the bottom half looks like. On another point, eww 9x21, I hate even the slightest modification to such guns of historical value!

tenbears · 08-01-2007, 12:29 AM

My first thought when I looked at the grip. Is that the SS insignia came off a SS dagger.

Steinar · 08-01-2007, 04:01 AM

Mr Tac has a good way with words. If some of my theachers at school had skills like that, I may actually have learned a thing or two back then..
But not norwegian? Veldig skuffende.. Ikke engang ordet 'skÃ?Â¥l' etter Ã?Â¥ ha jobbet med mine tidligere kollegaer!?

..Fantomark, does converted lugers jam more (..or less)?

Regards

斯戴纳
Ã?Â· Ã?Â· Ã?Â· - Ã?Â· Ã?Â· Ã?Â· - Ã?Â· Ã?Â· - Ã?Â· - Ã?Â·

fantomark · 08-01-2007, 04:50 AM

Ciao!

I perfectly agree with Rylan ao both the points he made!

1 - as to the SS logo on grips, in fact I got the photos from previous owner of this P08. He sent this photo in reply to all enquiries from potential buyers, and he decided to partly blot out the SS insignia to avoid potential problems............
Over here, Italians seems to get over sensitive about showing of Nazi emblems , markings, etc., and there seems to be even a law forbidding using/wearing of Nazi/Fascist badges & markings in public.
Just an example to tell you as farcical the situation is:
My other hobby is modelling Military Vehichles (ie the usual Tamiya, Airfix Kits). Well , believe it or not , some kits are now supplied deprived of their Svastika decals (that means you then have to buy these as aftermarkets if you want to build an accurate model!!!!). Even the classic Afrikakorps Palm+Svastika insignia, has just become a Palm only in some kits!!! - Incidentally the same happens with Formula one model kits of of cars of the pre Tobacco-ban Era, sice model decals of tobacco products have also been banned just as the Nazi insignia!!!
I recently purchased a model of Emerson Fittipadi's JPS-Lotus 72, and had to get for all the JPS decals from an aftermarket supplier (crazy isn'it!!??)

2 - Back to the Luger World!!
I also agree that converting a 9 Para into a 9x21 definitely kills the historical weapon of the gun, but what else can we do?.
Here in Italy the 9 Para is forbidden (both Weapons AND Ammo!!), so anybody wishing to buy a 9mm Military WWI or WWII Luger only has to choices:

1 - to buy a pistol converted into a 7.65 para (which is legal) by sleeving of the barrel, like Idid with my first Luger ( a fully matching 1918 DWM - I will send pictures later to have an opinion from you Luger experts - I am just a green recruit!!)

2 - to buy a pistol "modified" , by deepening of the chamber, to accept the 9X21 ammo, like this one!

no other options available at the moment, and by the way: we are only allowed to possess 3 pistols legally in Italy - unless you get a special collectors licence....but that is a different story!

I look forward to your comments.

This Forum is really the best info a Luger enthusiast can hope for!!!!

Ciao!

Marco

07-31-2007, 10:42 AM	#1
fantomark User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: milano, italy Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Waffen Ss Grips CIAO from Italy. Just one question for you Military Luger Gurus! I have just purchased my second (and last - Italian regulations only allow 3 Pistols, unless you have a special collector licence!) P08. As you can see, the grips are decorated with a SS logo (on both sides) Pistol is dated 1938 and is a Mauser (S/42) caliber is 9X21 (converted from 9 Para, which is illegal in Italy.) I am puzzled about the small SS logos on the grips (which I partly covered in the attached photo to avoid hurting the feeling of any Nazi regalia sensitive members) Are any special WAFFEN SS logos known to have existed, or can they be just a later add-on "embellishment" ? Thanks in advance to all WWII LUGER gurus out there!! Ciao! Fantomark: Attached Thumbnails

07-31-2007, 11:02 AM	#2
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	In danger of proclaiming myself as a guru by answering to your question, the SS mark is most likely a post war add on. Either to increase the value or just to make it look nicer. Congratulations with it! __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

07-31-2007, 03:01 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Translation for those who are language challenged... Mister Fantomark - for favor you remember that from the duration the Armies Allied were capturing soldiers German in the large amount, there was a grievous habit of soldiers hunts some Waffen SS, instead of to do them in prisoners. Some soldier German that was found to be carrying a pronounced article with the sign of SS was responsible to to be fired with his hands in the air. This gun is, without some doubt, a gun that was, like we say, 'puffed.' Much respectful greetings - __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-31-2007, 03:53 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Ha! That automated translation is almost as unreadable as the original Italian! The "puffed" comes across loud and clear however. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-31-2007, 06:04 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Sieger, he is an amazing linguiest (sp ) and has a total grasp of 6 or 8 languages and then must know bits and pieces of many others (this is just from me being dumbfounded at his easy grasp of them I've seen on the forum). I am sure that Tac will answer his self amazingly enough, he even knows the Queens English Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-31-2007, 11:15 AM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	The SS insignia appears to be an SS member's lapel pin with the pin removed. This type of embellishment of pistols and holsters was very common on the trophies brought home by American soldiers.

07-31-2007, 07:10 PM	#9
RBorecky User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What is wrong with SS?? It stands for Super Sport doesnt it?? I Kid, I kid. Rick B

07-31-2007, 09:29 PM	#10
RylanBrissette User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: British Columbia, Canada Posts: 189 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I am all most sensitive to the Nazi's war crimes commited by some during the war. But I can't imagine how blotting out half an image prevents people from seeing it.. Honestly some people get carried away. It's not like they don't know what the bottom half looks like. On another point, eww 9x21, I hate even the slightest modification to such guns of historical value!

08-01-2007, 12:29 AM	#11
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	My first thought when I looked at the grip. Is that the SS insignia came off a SS dagger.

08-01-2007, 04:01 AM	#12
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Mr Tac has a good way with words. If some of my theachers at school had skills like that, I may actually have learned a thing or two back then.. But not norwegian? Veldig skuffende.. Ikke engang ordet 'skÃ?Â¥l' etter Ã?Â¥ ha jobbet med mine tidligere kollegaer!? ..Fantomark, does converted lugers jam more (..or less)? Regards 斯戴纳 Ã?Â· Ã?Â· Ã?Â· - Ã?Â· Ã?Â· Ã?Â· - Ã?Â· Ã?Â· - Ã?Â· - Ã?Â· __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

08-01-2007, 04:50 AM	#13
fantomark User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: milano, italy Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ciao! I perfectly agree with Rylan ao both the points he made! 1 - as to the SS logo on grips, in fact I got the photos from previous owner of this P08. He sent this photo in reply to all enquiries from potential buyers, and he decided to partly blot out the SS insignia to avoid potential problems............ Over here, Italians seems to get over sensitive about showing of Nazi emblems , markings, etc., and there seems to be even a law forbidding using/wearing of Nazi/Fascist badges & markings in public. Just an example to tell you as farcical the situation is: My other hobby is modelling Military Vehichles (ie the usual Tamiya, Airfix Kits). Well , believe it or not , some kits are now supplied deprived of their Svastika decals (that means you then have to buy these as aftermarkets if you want to build an accurate model!!!!). Even the classic Afrikakorps Palm+Svastika insignia, has just become a Palm only in some kits!!! - Incidentally the same happens with Formula one model kits of of cars of the pre Tobacco-ban Era, sice model decals of tobacco products have also been banned just as the Nazi insignia!!! I recently purchased a model of Emerson Fittipadi's JPS-Lotus 72, and had to get for all the JPS decals from an aftermarket supplier (crazy isn'it!!??) 2 - Back to the Luger World!! I also agree that converting a 9 Para into a 9x21 definitely kills the historical weapon of the gun, but what else can we do?. Here in Italy the 9 Para is forbidden (both Weapons AND Ammo!!), so anybody wishing to buy a 9mm Military WWI or WWII Luger only has to choices: 1 - to buy a pistol converted into a 7.65 para (which is legal) by sleeving of the barrel, like Idid with my first Luger ( a fully matching 1918 DWM - I will send pictures later to have an opinion from you Luger experts - I am just a green recruit!!) 2 - to buy a pistol "modified" , by deepening of the chamber, to accept the 9X21 ammo, like this one! no other options available at the moment, and by the way: we are only allowed to possess 3 pistols legally in Italy - unless you get a special collectors licence....but that is a different story! I look forward to your comments. This Forum is really the best info a Luger enthusiast can hope for!!!! Ciao! Marco