Simson Research questions

[LugerVern]

For you Simson collectors I have a couple of question:

It appears that Simson takedown levers are always proofed to the left of the serial number. ( true or false)

( Ok, if you say false, I want an example)

Also, If you do a careful search on the safety markings there seems to be a transition occur around ( SN4000) and this change inâ?� GESICHERTâ?� runs through to the end of production. ( true or false)

This is a little more complicated, but look at the "G" on page 141 gun SN 4004-- then go back a few pages and look at previous safety markings.

I came across these observations while researching a Simson but its getting late and I wanted to get the real experts involved.

Have fun

Vern

[Edward Tinker]

Remind me if I forget, i will have time this week, but maybe not tomororow. I can look at all of mine, i have 3 or 4 different ones since we wrote the book.


and its late at night; tell use what you think the transition you beleive is occuring on the safety, as I am unsure what you think you see; and we will look for it. Or maybe i was just confused from how I read it


ed

[LugerVern]

I had some problems finding appropriate pictures to show the trend on the Simson safety markings. The focus is on the â??Gâ?� offset as compared to the â??Eâ?�:
The exact transition point is uncertain but based on pictures in the â??Simson Lugerâ?� book. The lower set â??Gâ?� seems to be continuous through about SN 3130 or the end of 1927 production.
After that the higher set â??Gâ?� become predominate until the end of production.

SN 2014 shows the lower set â??Gâ?� SN 4004 the Higher set â??Gâ?�

Below is a series of Simson safeties, the first one is of the lower variety all others the Higher set type.

This is all just theory, but interesting research none the less

Enjoy

Vern

[LugerVern]

Not much interest here, but in case someone is buying a Simson and wants to do some research before buying.

Thanks

Vern

[Pete Ebbink]

Vern,

I took a short interest in Simson Lugers (sorry, Ed...) over on Jan's Gun Boards in this discussion thread...

Mostly notably about the variation in toggle marking, shape of lettering and placement of proof stamps.

There is a pretty good photo-collage on the 2nd. page of this discussion :

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10479

[LugerVern]

Pete thanks for the link

This question of mine is much more simple than counting feathers on eagles.
I want someone to prove to me that the E/6 shows ups on the right side of the serial number on Simson take down levers? The one above ( on the right) is on a very questionable luger.
I donâ??t want to debate that luger.

I just want picture proof that it can happenâ??other than on a fake that is.

Thanks

Vern

[Pete Ebbink]

Do not know the answer to your question...

The Simson proof did move from the front of the toggle link to the back...or vice versa...

[Edward Tinker]

Vern, I was a bit confused; you first talked about takedown levers and then showed pictures of the Gesichertâ?¦
I am hesitant in stating categorically that eagle 6's HAVE to be here or there on such a small part, unless we can find something in writing that states so.
I feel that going down the Costanzo road, a great work, but one where he felt that each nuance was a different proof or acceptance, well, in my opinion, it just isn't so. I believe that dies broke, got chipped and were replaced / remade; fairly frequently. So there would be differences. What has to happen is you have to look at parts made in the same time frame, i.e. within several hundred of each serial number. 1609 above is 1609a; and that is 2581 guns made later than 9028. That said, while writing the book and even after, I bought every Simson I could and could photograph, so I could compare proofs and acceptance markings. The exact placement of them is cause for further research...

That said, see the jpg I made earlier today, (took me an hour so pretend to be impressed)


This is interesting; these are not really in order of serial number, but it appears to make little differnce...

[LugerVern]

Thanks Ed

Yes you did a great Job!!!!!!!! I am always impressed.

While I researched Simsons I just could not find one that was proofed on the right of the serial number ( on the take down lever) I found this curious and wanted to put the question out to the other collectors to see if I was just imagining things.

We will never be able to say without a doubt that it has to be on the left side, but there is an interesting trend-- thank you for humoring me.


As for the safety markings, that will require much more work, but I also think there is something there, it is less defined but something to keep an eye out for.

I thought there would be more response from the other collectors, I know they bought the "Simson Luger" book, I guess I am the only one who looked at the pictures.

thanks

Vern