First Luger...John D & Dok...you're Great!

Bart · 10-17-2001, 02:37 PM

Hey guys, thanks so much for your response to my first message. I have joined on to Ralph Shattuck website, and viewed what he has available, based on your recommendation of where to buy. You said I should ask alot of questions, so here goes. I really like a dark finish and the "strawing" I have been reading about. So, he has a DWM, 9mm, 4", dated 1914 DWM Military. Mint Bore and grips w/1914 dated holster, super strawed parts. 100% origianl blue and matched serials for $1395.00. For a first timer, what do you think? Is this a good place to start? Or, should I buy something not quite as pricey? Lastly, is this a good buy in your estimation? Have I spend this money wisely in regard to the value of this Luger?

I am looking once again for your honest answers, which I value already.

Thanks,

Bart

Bart · 10-17-2001, 02:41 PM

It also includes a holster. Good thing to have? It is dated the same date as the Luger, 1914. I'm sure it does add value, but how much value to a new, and future collector?

Thanks Again,

Bart

10-17-2001, 02:52 PM

Talk to Ralph directly. He only lists a few of the Lugers he has to offer on his site. He will make great suggestions and he is just a super guy to talk to.

Best regards,

Rod

Thor · 10-17-2001, 03:01 PM

I agree completely with REB! Remember though, the Early WWI guns are rust blued (BLUE/GRAY) color with strawed parts and the WWII guns (FOR THE MOST PART) are salt blued (a darker and blacker color) with salt blued parts. That is comparing Mauser made Lugers (after mid 1937) to Erfurt and DWM Lugers made during 1908-1918 (and double dates and commercials made or reworked in the 1920s) See what you get into, lots of different Lugers. Get a good Luger book and read up on them before you buy. It adds excitement and makes the purchase even more enjoyable. ~Thor~

Dok · 10-17-2001, 03:24 PM

take your time... I know how I was, once I'd made the decision, I had to get one NOW!!! And I didn't have the benefit of this board to help me. As much as you want to rush out and buy a Luger today, try and take your time and decide (as John said) if you want to buy a rig or not. $1400 may well be a good price for what you get, but is that really what you want? And $1400 is still $1400!

Maybe a similar quality gun without the rig might be under $1000. Thor is right about the color too, (take a look at my Luger in the Owner's Corner under Dok), now that is a dip blue (closer to black) and the straw is really gold. But this is a REWORK, and has no collector value, so again, ask yourself, is it this particular LOOK I'm after, in which case buy a shooter for $400 and have Ted Green restore it, otherwise, a collectible will have a softer blue/grey rust blue finish, and may have some wear, and the straw may not be as gold!

I think the main thing is - TAKE A BREATH.... and plan your strategy, you be glad you did later!

Dok

John D. · 10-17-2001, 03:30 PM

Yes! - a Luger that comes with an original issued holster does increase the value, but as some of the folks can already tell you - I'm sure no expert on hosters!! A documented "RIG" is probably worth a little more then just the "sum" of the pieces (just adding the price of the Luger, holster, etc. together).

For that, also give Ralph a call as REB and Thor suggested - he's a great person..! Further - he is a tremendous source of knowledge and willing to share it with budding collectors.

About the 1914 RIG, yes - I've seen them go for a little less and a "lot" more - again depending on condition, variation, pieces included (mags, tool, etc.)).. However, the WWI production is 80+ years "young", so not only is the finish "grayer" as Thor notes, but as well - most likely, it is reasonable to expect some light areas and imperfections. However, each adds a little character to the piece.. On my 1916, these were/are a totally different "tone" then my later production Lugers.

Since you are looking at early Lugers as your first acquisition - you may want to consider Still's Luger Series of books. They are a tremendous source of info (and the photo's will have you fantisizing ) I got mine from Ray Rilings ( http://www.rayrilingarmsbooks.com ) - excellent prices, they ship immediately and will suggest some other reference books if you tell them your interest areas. A small investment in developing your reference library will probably save you thousands of dollars in the long run, in my opinion.

Welcome to collecting!!! Some refer to it as an "addiction" - to which there is no known cure..

Dok · 10-17-2001, 03:37 PM

Sooner or later you get into books... here are a few (and other members will be sure to add their faves) that are worthy of consideration...

Jan Still's Trilogy (he has others but three are relevant)

Ã?Â*Imperial Lugers (1900 - 1918)

Ã?Â*Weimar Lugers (1920 - 1933)

Ã?Â*Third Reich Lugers (1939 - 1945)

Lugers At Random (Charles Kenyon)

Luger - The International Pistol (Charles Kenyon)

The Luger Handbook (Aaron Davis)

This book is a pocket book about $10.00, and is great to take to a gun show. It has a quick "flow chart" way of finding which Luger you are considering and gives prices (which are not all that accurate, but it's better than a poke in the eye with sharp stick)

There are others which I'll leave for other members to suggest.

Dok

Dok · 10-17-2001, 04:37 PM

Dok · 10-17-2001, 04:39 PM

Bart · 10-17-2001, 07:23 PM

to all of you for your help and insite. I hope to use your vast resouces (personal knowledge) again and again. If you get sick of me, just say so and I'll lay in the weeds. As John S. said, all of my discretionary dollars to be for the purchase of a gun have been used up to buy books. So, I have to ask, what kind of a Luger can I buy for $2.78 which is what I now have left to spend?

In regard to the finish you have explained to me, again, many thanks, as I would never have even thought about it. So many great suggestions have inspired and motivated me even more to become a part of what I perceive as a community of Luger "compadres". Thanks for welcoming me!

Bart

P.S. If you would care to know, I will be glad to post my decision on what I end up buying. Just let me know if anyone is interested. Thanks again for your help.

Thor · 10-17-2001, 07:37 PM

I am interested in what you end up with Bart! Thor

schwob · 10-17-2001, 08:13 PM

Bart, I for a company of one am very interested in your choice for your Luger. I find myself in the same position, I'm looking to buy a........., or a ..........,

or maybe a.......... Decisions, decisions, decisions, times are tough, yeah right.

Bart · 10-17-2001, 10:18 PM

Alright Dok, you told me about "dip blue" and about the "rust blue", but you never said anything about "yellow".

Guess I have a lot more reading to do than I thought! But then again, for $2.78 how much research do I need?

Thanks Again,

Bart

Bart · 10-17-2001, 10:19 PM

Will keep you posted Thor!

Thanks,

Bart

Bart · 10-17-2001, 10:24 PM

Schwob, do you have a Luger at the moment? Or, a collection? Or, are you Lugerless, as I am? I have decided to make a decision this week for sure, and will let you know what I end up doing. Thanks for your interest.

Bart

Hugh · 10-17-2001, 11:57 PM

Bart,

Thats one that Thor decided to straw all over, but he forgot to remove the grips, and thats what color strawed wood is

schwob · 10-18-2001, 03:56 AM

Bart, I have a collection. It spans 1900 A.E. thru Imperials up to WWII S-42. I'm giving some serious thought and saving with intent to look after a Carbine. Whatever you decide, take the advice of the very knowledgeable members of this forum, make haste......slowly.

10-17-2001, 02:37 PM	#1
Bart User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 85 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First Luger...John D & Dok...you're Great! Hey guys, thanks so much for your response to my first message. I have joined on to Ralph Shattuck website, and viewed what he has available, based on your recommendation of where to buy. You said I should ask alot of questions, so here goes. I really like a dark finish and the "strawing" I have been reading about. So, he has a DWM, 9mm, 4", dated 1914 DWM Military. Mint Bore and grips w/1914 dated holster, super strawed parts. 100% origianl blue and matched serials for $1395.00. For a first timer, what do you think? Is this a good place to start? Or, should I buy something not quite as pricey? Lastly, is this a good buy in your estimation? Have I spend this money wisely in regard to the value of this Luger? I am looking once again for your honest answers, which I value already. Thanks, Bart

10-17-2001, 02:41 PM	#2
Bart User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 85 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Forgot Something... It also includes a holster. Good thing to have? It is dated the same date as the Luger, 1914. I'm sure it does add value, but how much value to a new, and future collector? Thanks Again, Bart

10-17-2001, 02:52 PM	#3
REB Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Give Ralph a call Talk to Ralph directly. He only lists a few of the Lugers he has to offer on his site. He will make great suggestions and he is just a super guy to talk to. Best regards, Rod

10-17-2001, 03:01 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Give Ralph a call/Buy a Book first I agree completely with REB! Remember though, the Early WWI guns are rust blued (BLUE/GRAY) color with strawed parts and the WWII guns (FOR THE MOST PART) are salt blued (a darker and blacker color) with salt blued parts. That is comparing Mauser made Lugers (after mid 1937) to Erfurt and DWM Lugers made during 1908-1918 (and double dates and commercials made or reworked in the 1920s) See what you get into, lots of different Lugers. Get a good Luger book and read up on them before you buy. It adds excitement and makes the purchase even more enjoyable. ~Thor~

10-17-2001, 03:24 PM	#5
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thor makes a good point... take your time... I know how I was, once I'd made the decision, I had to get one NOW!!! And I didn't have the benefit of this board to help me. As much as you want to rush out and buy a Luger today, try and take your time and decide (as John said) if you want to buy a rig or not. $1400 may well be a good price for what you get, but is that really what you want? And $1400 is still $1400! Maybe a similar quality gun without the rig might be under $1000. Thor is right about the color too, (take a look at my Luger in the Owner's Corner under Dok), now that is a dip blue (closer to black) and the straw is really gold. But this is a REWORK, and has no collector value, so again, ask yourself, is it this particular LOOK I'm after, in which case buy a shooter for $400 and have Ted Green restore it, otherwise, a collectible will have a softer blue/grey rust blue finish, and may have some wear, and the straw may not be as gold! I think the main thing is - TAKE A BREATH.... and plan your strategy, you be glad you did later! Dok

10-17-2001, 03:30 PM	#6
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hi Bart....! Yes! - a Luger that comes with an original issued holster does increase the value, but as some of the folks can already tell you - I'm sure no expert on hosters!! A documented "RIG" is probably worth a little more then just the "sum" of the pieces (just adding the price of the Luger, holster, etc. together). For that, also give Ralph a call as REB and Thor suggested - he's a great person..! Further - he is a tremendous source of knowledge and willing to share it with budding collectors. About the 1914 RIG, yes - I've seen them go for a little less and a "lot" more - again depending on condition, variation, pieces included (mags, tool, etc.)).. However, the WWI production is 80+ years "young", so not only is the finish "grayer" as Thor notes, but as well - most likely, it is reasonable to expect some light areas and imperfections. However, each adds a little character to the piece.. On my 1916, these were/are a totally different "tone" then my later production Lugers. Since you are looking at early Lugers as your first acquisition - you may want to consider Still's Luger Series of books. They are a tremendous source of info (and the photo's will have you fantisizing ) I got mine from Ray Rilings ( http://www.rayrilingarmsbooks.com ) - excellent prices, they ship immediately and will suggest some other reference books if you tell them your interest areas. A small investment in developing your reference library will probably save you thousands of dollars in the long run, in my opinion. Welcome to collecting!!! Some refer to it as an "addiction" - to which there is no known cure..

10-17-2001, 03:37 PM	#7
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	A note about books... Sooner or later you get into books... here are a few (and other members will be sure to add their faves) that are worthy of consideration... Jan Still's Trilogy (he has others but three are relevant) Ã?ÂImperial Lugers (1900 - 1918) Ã?ÂWeimar Lugers (1920 - 1933) Ã?Â*Third Reich Lugers (1939 - 1945) Lugers At Random (Charles Kenyon) Luger - The International Pistol (Charles Kenyon) The Luger Handbook (Aaron Davis) This book is a pocket book about $10.00, and is great to take to a gun show. It has a quick "flow chart" way of finding which Luger you are considering and gives prices (which are not all that accurate, but it's better than a poke in the eye with sharp stick) There are others which I'll leave for other members to suggest. Dok

10-17-2001, 03:53 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I would also recommend the E-book series by Gerard Henrotin to newbies KRIEGHOFF PARABELLUM by Randall Gibson - a "must have" GERMAN MILITARY PISTOLS by Fred Datig - or ANY Datig book! GERMAN PISTOLS AND HOLSTERS - LtC. Robert Whittington (on my "want" list:-) LUGERS AT RANDOM - Charles Kenyon - can't be a collecor without it ;^)... LUGER-THE MULTI-NATIONAL PISTOL - Charles Kenyon - the picures alone are worth the price... THE DUTCH LUGER - Marten & de Vries - outstanding book about a little documented Luger variation. Saved about $1,200 by NOT buying a well done "fake" because of it..! PARABELLUM, A TECHNICAL HISTORY OF SWISS LUGERS - Vittorio Bobba - rates up there with THE MULTI-NATIONAL PISTOL book (and the auther even dis-spells some common "collectoring" myths)... Again - I bought all these from either Ralph or at Ray Rilings ( http://www.rayrilingarmsbooks.com ) OK - so with all our suggestions combined - we just spent 100% of Bart's budget on just BOOKS!!!

10-17-2001, 04:37 PM	#10
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	But they are PC only... no Macs, no Linux (E

10-17-2001, 04:39 PM	#11
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	well at least he got good value for his money!!

10-17-2001, 07:23 PM	#12
Bart User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 85 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many Thanks... to all of you for your help and insite. I hope to use your vast resouces (personal knowledge) again and again. If you get sick of me, just say so and I'll lay in the weeds. As John S. said, all of my discretionary dollars to be for the purchase of a gun have been used up to buy books. So, I have to ask, what kind of a Luger can I buy for $2.78 which is what I now have left to spend? In regard to the finish you have explained to me, again, many thanks, as I would never have even thought about it. So many great suggestions have inspired and motivated me even more to become a part of what I perceive as a community of Luger "compadres". Thanks for welcoming me! Bart P.S. If you would care to know, I will be glad to post my decision on what I end up buying. Just let me know if anyone is interested. Thanks again for your help.

10-17-2001, 07:37 PM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Many Thanks... I am interested in what you end up with Bart! Thor

10-17-2001, 08:13 PM	#14
schwob RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 273 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Many Thanks... Bart, I for a company of one am very interested in your choice for your Luger. I find myself in the same position, I'm looking to buy a........., or a .........., or maybe a.......... Decisions, decisions, decisions, times are tough, yeah right.

10-17-2001, 09:28 PM	#15
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Here you go Bart, a Luger for $2.78...
Find More Posts by Dok

10-17-2001, 10:18 PM	#16
Bart User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 85 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Color Confusion... Alright Dok, you told me about "dip blue" and about the "rust blue", but you never said anything about "yellow". Guess I have a lot more reading to do than I thought! But then again, for $2.78 how much research do I need? Thanks Again, Bart

10-17-2001, 10:19 PM	#17
Bart User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 85 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Many Thanks... Will keep you posted Thor! Thanks, Bart

10-17-2001, 10:24 PM	#18
Bart User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 85 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Decisions... Schwob, do you have a Luger at the moment? Or, a collection? Or, are you Lugerless, as I am? I have decided to make a decision this week for sure, and will let you know what I end up doing. Thanks for your interest. Bart

10-17-2001, 11:57 PM	#19
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Color Confusion... Bart, Thats one that Thor decided to straw all over, but he forgot to remove the grips, and thats what color strawed wood is

10-18-2001, 03:56 AM	#20
schwob RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 273 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Decisions... Bart, I have a collection. It spans 1900 A.E. thru Imperials up to WWII S-42. I'm giving some serious thought and saving with intent to look after a Carbine. Whatever you decide, take the advice of the very knowledgeable members of this forum, make haste......slowly.