Help identify old colt 5 shot revolver?

dreiluger · 02-20-2008, 11:51 PM

A friend at work just inherited two pistols. One of them is an older H&R revolver an the other is a colt. I was thinking it might be a dragoon but the pictures don't match up? Any thoughts on what this is and or the value of it? Safe to shoot?

colt 5 shot, 5 inch octagon barrel
horse and carriage artwork on cylinder.
Serial Number: 177078

drbuster · 02-21-2008, 12:51 AM

Dreiluger, it's an 1851 Colt Navy that looks to be in pretty good shape. If the numbers all match, including the wedge, it looks like a $2500 Colt to me.

dreiluger · 02-21-2008, 12:53 AM

I posted it on another board and they think it is a Colt 1849 Pocket Revolver, caliber .31. Did the 1851 have the stagecoach markings?

Edward Tinker · 02-21-2008, 01:02 AM

I think the 1849 does not have the reloading thingy, although i was thinking it was a 1849 also. These vary in price a lot, from $650 for a pretty lousy example to up to $2500 like doc said.

Ed

wlyon · 02-21-2008, 01:40 AM

I agree this is a 1849 pocket model. The 1851 I believe had a 71/2 " barrel. The 49 was made with and without attached loading levers. Nice firearm. Bill

John Sabato · 02-21-2008, 12:58 PM

You guys are GOOD! I thought it was an 1849 too... but mike'ing the barrel will tell the story for sure... if its's .36 caliber it is a cut down 1851, if it is smaller than that (.31) then it's an 1849.

Steinar · 02-21-2008, 01:09 PM

I just love that Colt.. would swim over the atlantic if I knew I would get my hands on one of those!
Take good care of it Dreiluger! ..or sell it to me

RichSr · 02-21-2008, 03:43 PM

Allen,
You have what appears to be an 1849 model Colt. As John S stated, it would be in 31 caliber. The fact that it is a five shot and has the "stagecoach" scene leaves no doubt as to it's identity. I don't have access to serial number records at this time but believe it was manufactured around 1860. Colt made over 300,000 of this model over about 23 years so there are many slight variations. With the exception of a 3" barreled variation, I believe the rest did have loading levers. At least it was the norm.
Looks to be in pretty good shape, though it appears to be missing the nipple on the chamber closest to the camera.

lboos · 02-21-2008, 07:02 PM

over 350,000 were made. end of production was 1875. sr# 115711 was made in 1856 so i would guess yours 117078 would have been made in 1856 or 1857. they made a 3 1/2, 5 ,and 6 in barrel. they were used in the Calif. gold rush, the civil war, and in the old west. they all had loading levers as they were cap and ball gun,s. i had one for years. a great looking gun and a big part of our history. if it were mine i would not shoot it.
value? from the pic,s i would guess $800 to $1800. it look,s great from here.

RichSr · 02-21-2008, 08:17 PM

Louis,
Allen wrote that the serial number is 177078, your guess (117078)was for a revolver 60,000 earlier. You may want to check your sources. This model was manufactured in 1850 around serial#12000 and ending in 1873 around #340000. Barrel lengths started with the 3" (collector named "Wells Fargo"model without loading lever) and generally included 4,5, and 6"lengths. There were variations so I would not count out an additional 1/2" on any of the above lengths.

dreiluger · 02-21-2008, 09:06 PM

Another forum pointed me to this page with colt serial numbers.

http://proofhouse.com/colt/1849pocket.htm

lboos · 02-21-2008, 09:43 PM

Rich, Boy did i screw that up, im sorry. i guess my eyes aint what it use to be. you are right. i was thinking sr# 117078. it,s been a while sence i traded my 1849 P/M colt. i was trying go by my memory which is about like my eye sight. and i did forget about the Wells Fargo model. i will try and do better in the future. Thanks.

RichSr · 02-21-2008, 10:03 PM

Louis,
I understand completely. They say memory is the first thing to go, I can't remember what's next

I'm just glad I could help. I don't often contribute but percussion and early cartridge arms used to be a big interest of mine.

davidkachel · 02-22-2008, 12:43 PM

There is "safe to shoot" and then there is "wise to shoot". Even if the gun is safe to shoot (probably not), it is definitely not wise to shoot it.
Any damage that might occur diminishes its value. If you want to shoot such a weapon, buy a replica. They are readily available, made with better materials than the originals and cheap, cheap, cheap! You can get an Italian replica for about $200. If you break it you just buy replacement parts, also plentiful, and you're ready to go again. If you break that original, you'll never forgive yourself.

I own 22 black powder replicas and there is nothing more fun to shoot.

BTW, don't waste any money on the overpriced Colt replicas of their own guns. These are just the same Italian copies with a slightly better fit and finish. Colt buys them from Italy in the white, finishes them and stamps their name on them. Then they add a price tag that would impress J.P. Gotrocks.

Steinar · 02-22-2008, 02:06 PM

Sorry if i'm stealing the thread.. But what is you guys thoughs on this one http://www.qxl.no/accdb/viewitem.asp?IDI=530269640 ?
Tossed in a bid in my eager to get one, but it strikes me now that it might be a repro..

SIGP2101 · 02-22-2008, 05:09 PM

Doesn't look functional to me. That is not Colt. What is it? I do not understand Norwagian

Steinar · 02-22-2008, 05:29 PM

Sorry about not translating the text.. the seller doesn't say that much usefull about it anyway. Just that the trigger and main spring is missing and that it does not require a lisence since it's pre 1870 fabrication. I'm having second thoughts about my bid now..

My dream would be to find the twin gun to the one posted in this thread some day

davidkachel · 02-22-2008, 09:17 PM

Steinar,

It's hard to tell anything from the one blurry picture.
Surest signs it might be a fake: blurry picture and high price.

You should know there are a LOT of fakes out there.

How much does your bid translate to in dollars?

Steinar · 02-23-2008, 10:04 AM

I set a maximum bid of 364 in USD, would be a bargain if it was genuine. But I have no interest in a repro.. so I'm not feeling very smart right now

The cylinder looks longer on the one I found btw, not sure what that means.

davidkachel · 02-24-2008, 07:29 PM

Steinar,

Fortunately you're not out too much if the thing turns out to be a toad. Just pray someone outbids you.
Since there is so much fakery going on with these guns my advice would be to befriend an expert in percussion arms and buy only with his approval... sort of like what I did here on the LF! {grin}

02-21-2008, 01:02 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I think the 1849 does not have the reloading thingy, although i was thinking it was a 1849 also. These vary in price a lot, from $650 for a pretty lousy example to up to $2500 like doc said. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-21-2008, 01:40 AM	#5
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	I agree this is a 1849 pocket model. The 1851 I believe had a 71/2 " barrel. The 49 was made with and without attached loading levers. Nice firearm. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-21-2008, 12:58 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	You guys are GOOD! I thought it was an 1849 too... but mike'ing the barrel will tell the story for sure... if its's .36 caliber it is a cut down 1851, if it is smaller than that (.31) then it's an 1849. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-21-2008, 01:09 PM	#7
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	I just love that Colt.. would swim over the atlantic if I knew I would get my hands on one of those! Take good care of it Dreiluger! ..or sell it to me __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

02-21-2008, 03:43 PM	#8
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 153 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	Allen, You have what appears to be an 1849 model Colt. As John S stated, it would be in 31 caliber. The fact that it is a five shot and has the "stagecoach" scene leaves no doubt as to it's identity. I don't have access to serial number records at this time but believe it was manufactured around 1860. Colt made over 300,000 of this model over about 23 years so there are many slight variations. With the exception of a 3" barreled variation, I believe the rest did have loading levers. At least it was the norm. Looks to be in pretty good shape, though it appears to be missing the nipple on the chamber closest to the camera. __________________ Rich

02-20-2008, 11:51 PM	#1
dreiluger User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help identify old colt 5 shot revolver? A friend at work just inherited two pistols. One of them is an older H&R revolver an the other is a colt. I was thinking it might be a dragoon but the pictures don't match up? Any thoughts on what this is and or the value of it? Safe to shoot? colt 5 shot, 5 inch octagon barrel horse and carriage artwork on cylinder. Serial Number: 177078

02-21-2008, 12:51 AM	#2
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Dreiluger, it's an 1851 Colt Navy that looks to be in pretty good shape. If the numbers all match, including the wedge, it looks like a $2500 Colt to me.

02-21-2008, 12:53 AM	#3
dreiluger User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I posted it on another board and they think it is a Colt 1849 Pocket Revolver, caliber .31. Did the 1851 have the stagecoach markings?

02-21-2008, 07:02 PM	#9
lboos User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ga. Posts: 69 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	over 350,000 were made. end of production was 1875. sr# 115711 was made in 1856 so i would guess yours 117078 would have been made in 1856 or 1857. they made a 3 1/2, 5 ,and 6 in barrel. they were used in the Calif. gold rush, the civil war, and in the old west. they all had loading levers as they were cap and ball gun,s. i had one for years. a great looking gun and a big part of our history. if it were mine i would not shoot it. value? from the pic,s i would guess $800 to $1800. it look,s great from here.

02-21-2008, 08:17 PM	#10
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 153 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	Louis, Allen wrote that the serial number is 177078, your guess (117078)was for a revolver 60,000 earlier. You may want to check your sources. This model was manufactured in 1850 around serial#12000 and ending in 1873 around #340000. Barrel lengths started with the 3" (collector named "Wells Fargo"model without loading lever) and generally included 4,5, and 6"lengths. There were variations so I would not count out an additional 1/2" on any of the above lengths. __________________ Rich

02-21-2008, 09:06 PM	#11
dreiluger User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another forum pointed me to this page with colt serial numbers. http://proofhouse.com/colt/1849pocket.htm

02-21-2008, 09:43 PM	#12
lboos User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ga. Posts: 69 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rich, Boy did i screw that up, im sorry. i guess my eyes aint what it use to be. you are right. i was thinking sr# 117078. it,s been a while sence i traded my 1849 P/M colt. i was trying go by my memory which is about like my eye sight. and i did forget about the Wells Fargo model. i will try and do better in the future. Thanks.

02-21-2008, 10:03 PM	#13
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 153 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	Louis, I understand completely. They say memory is the first thing to go, I can't remember what's next I'm just glad I could help. I don't often contribute but percussion and early cartridge arms used to be a big interest of mine. __________________ Rich

02-22-2008, 12:43 PM	#14
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	There is "safe to shoot" and then there is "wise to shoot". Even if the gun is safe to shoot (probably not), it is definitely not wise to shoot it. Any damage that might occur diminishes its value. If you want to shoot such a weapon, buy a replica. They are readily available, made with better materials than the originals and cheap, cheap, cheap! You can get an Italian replica for about $200. If you break it you just buy replacement parts, also plentiful, and you're ready to go again. If you break that original, you'll never forgive yourself. I own 22 black powder replicas and there is nothing more fun to shoot. BTW, don't waste any money on the overpriced Colt replicas of their own guns. These are just the same Italian copies with a slightly better fit and finish. Colt buys them from Italy in the white, finishes them and stamps their name on them. Then they add a price tag that would impress J.P. Gotrocks. __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

02-22-2008, 02:06 PM	#15
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Sorry if i'm stealing the thread.. But what is you guys thoughs on this one http://www.qxl.no/accdb/viewitem.asp?IDI=530269640 ? Tossed in a bid in my eager to get one, but it strikes me now that it might be a repro.. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

02-22-2008, 05:09 PM	#16
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	Doesn't look functional to me. That is not Colt. What is it? I do not understand Norwagian

02-22-2008, 05:29 PM	#17
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Sorry about not translating the text.. the seller doesn't say that much usefull about it anyway. Just that the trigger and main spring is missing and that it does not require a lisence since it's pre 1870 fabrication. I'm having second thoughts about my bid now.. My dream would be to find the twin gun to the one posted in this thread some day __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

02-22-2008, 09:17 PM	#18
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Steinar, It's hard to tell anything from the one blurry picture. Surest signs it might be a fake: blurry picture and high price. You should know there are a LOT of fakes out there. How much does your bid translate to in dollars? __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

02-23-2008, 10:04 AM	#19
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	I set a maximum bid of 364 in USD, would be a bargain if it was genuine. But I have no interest in a repro.. so I'm not feeling very smart right now The cylinder looks longer on the one I found btw, not sure what that means. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

02-24-2008, 07:29 PM	#20
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Steinar, Fortunately you're not out too much if the thing turns out to be a toad. Just pray someone outbids you. Since there is so much fakery going on with these guns my advice would be to befriend an expert in percussion arms and buy only with his approval... sort of like what I did here on the LF! {grin} __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.