Posting serial numbers

BILL · 02-26-2001, 12:02 AM

Often we see people here discussing the identification of a certain Luger that they have in their possession. They will often describe it, carefully leaving out the last two or three numbers in the serial by inserting x's. When all else fails they will post a picture of the pistol, including the whole serial number. What is the worst case scenario of posting the whole serial number of a pistol? I see this a lot and maybe I am just slow to figure this out. Thanks.

Frank · 02-26-2001, 12:11 AM

Quite often you will see a designation of a 12XXd for a Luger and then they will say that it has all parts with matching serial numbers and show a picture of the trigger sideplate with a big "34" on it. Duh !!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the serial number.

I think some people are worried about registration and some are concerned about the legality of the pistol. I can't think of anything else that would prevent the specification of the number. Just privacy. FRAXX

BILL · 02-26-2001, 03:42 AM

02-26-2001, 07:38 AM

A few years ago there were reports on the C&R e-mail list that some unscrupulous people were using full serial numbers extracted from e-mail messages in claims to police departments that those guns had been stolen from them. Ever since that warning (if not before), most people I know of have not been using the full serial numbers in their messages.

Bryan

02-26-2001, 09:40 AM

I think the using of "xx" in the serial numbers for use on the Intenet is a good idea. The full number is usually not required to provide the information requested. The most needed is the suffix letter and at least the first digit in the serial number.

If a photo is posted, we need to be careful not to disclose the full number. If more information is needed, ans e-mail between the parties can be used. Just my thoughts

Marvin

Dok · 02-26-2001, 09:45 AM

that some people are concerned that Big Brother is watching and the less he knows - the better!

John Sabato · 02-26-2001, 10:50 AM

All it takes is a couple of swipes with an electronic paintbrush to remove the serial number in a digital photograph for those of you who have concerns in this area.

If that is your concern and it is beyond your computer skills, email any photos that you wish to post publicly to me and I will "de-focus" the serial number for you and send it back - no charge..., or I can walk you through the process on the phone...

regards,

-John

Kyrie · 02-26-2001, 09:22 PM

Worst case is the pistol turns out to be stolen, the real owner sees it, reports it, and you don't have a bill of sale. That's possible jail time and the loss of your right to ever again possess a firearm.

There are a lot of variations on this (and the ever-present concern of the registration of firearms). Generally speaking, you are protected from prosecution if you can prove you purchased the pistol legitimately. You will still lose the pistol, as it is stolen property, but the issue will generally end there.

Best regards,

Kyrie

BILL · 02-27-2001, 07:53 PM

An associate spotted a rare pistol at a gun show, similar to one that had been stolen from him in a house breaking incident. Upon closer examination it turned out to be his pistol. The current owner of the pistol did have a bill of sale but it did not lead back to anyone they could prosecute. This all sounds like normal police procedure but when asked about having his stolen property returned the law enforcement agency said that was a private issue between the current owner and the crime victim and out of their jurisdiction. Had they been able to locate the perpetrator of the crime then they could have confiscated the weapon and it would have been returned to the proper owner. Sometimes local LEA policies baffle me.

Johnny Peppers · 02-27-2001, 09:18 PM

If the owner had a police report of the stolen weapon that fully described the pistol, he could have taken the person with the pistol to civil court and most likely had his pistol returned. The problem with the P08, P38, and K98k is that there are duplicate serial numbers in all of them and among them. If the police report had only the serial number and "German Pistol", the owner would stand little chance of getting it back in court. The police report would have to have ALL the necessary data on the firearm to be of use in court. If you are accused of having a stolen weapon and are taken to court, it would be best to be represented by counsel. Any good attorney would have the information at hand that shows that the serial number alone is duplicated many times, and that there is not enough description to say with certainty that the firearm in question is actually the accusers. If you had recorded the serial number with suffix and the year of manufacture and/or manufacturer, there would be little doubt who was the rightful owner. The firearm in question would probably be held by the court until the lawsuit was settled.

BILL · 02-27-2001, 10:40 PM

Very good points. Photo's (not digital) are probably a good thing to have. (Many courtrooms now allow only Polaroid pics to be used as evidence since they can't be modified with software).

02-26-2001, 12:02 AM	#1
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Posting serial numbers Often we see people here discussing the identification of a certain Luger that they have in their possession. They will often describe it, carefully leaving out the last two or three numbers in the serial by inserting x's. When all else fails they will post a picture of the pistol, including the whole serial number. What is the worst case scenario of posting the whole serial number of a pistol? I see this a lot and maybe I am just slow to figure this out. Thanks.

02-26-2001, 12:11 AM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Bill, beats me !! Quite often you will see a designation of a 12XXd for a Luger and then they will say that it has all parts with matching serial numbers and show a picture of the trigger sideplate with a big "34" on it. Duh !!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the serial number. I think some people are worried about registration and some are concerned about the legality of the pistol. I can't think of anything else that would prevent the specification of the number. Just privacy. FRAXX

02-26-2001, 03:42 AM	#3
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Fraxx, U R 2 much!! (EOM)

02-26-2001, 07:38 AM	#4
Bryan Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Bill, beats me !! A few years ago there were reports on the C&R e-mail list that some unscrupulous people were using full serial numbers extracted from e-mail messages in claims to police departments that those guns had been stolen from them. Ever since that warning (if not before), most people I know of have not been using the full serial numbers in their messages. Bryan

02-26-2001, 09:40 AM	#5
Marvin Cook Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Bill, beats me !! I think the using of "xx" in the serial numbers for use on the Intenet is a good idea. The full number is usually not required to provide the information requested. The most needed is the suffix letter and at least the first digit in the serial number. If a photo is posted, we need to be careful not to disclose the full number. If more information is needed, ans e-mail between the parties can be used. Just my thoughts Marvin

02-26-2001, 09:45 AM	#6
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I've even heard... that some people are concerned that Big Brother is watching and the less he knows - the better!

02-26-2001, 10:50 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	How Not to Post serial numbers All it takes is a couple of swipes with an electronic paintbrush to remove the serial number in a digital photograph for those of you who have concerns in this area. If that is your concern and it is beyond your computer skills, email any photos that you wish to post publicly to me and I will "de-focus" the serial number for you and send it back - no charge..., or I can walk you through the process on the phone... regards, -John

02-26-2001, 09:22 PM	#8
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Posting serial numbers Worst case is the pistol turns out to be stolen, the real owner sees it, reports it, and you don't have a bill of sale. That's possible jail time and the loss of your right to ever again possess a firearm. There are a lot of variations on this (and the ever-present concern of the registration of firearms). Generally speaking, you are protected from prosecution if you can prove you purchased the pistol legitimately. You will still lose the pistol, as it is stolen property, but the issue will generally end there. Best regards, Kyrie

02-27-2001, 07:53 PM	#9
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Strange but true An associate spotted a rare pistol at a gun show, similar to one that had been stolen from him in a house breaking incident. Upon closer examination it turned out to be his pistol. The current owner of the pistol did have a bill of sale but it did not lead back to anyone they could prosecute. This all sounds like normal police procedure but when asked about having his stolen property returned the law enforcement agency said that was a private issue between the current owner and the crime victim and out of their jurisdiction. Had they been able to locate the perpetrator of the crime then they could have confiscated the weapon and it would have been returned to the proper owner. Sometimes local LEA policies baffle me.

02-27-2001, 09:18 PM	#10
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Strange but true If the owner had a police report of the stolen weapon that fully described the pistol, he could have taken the person with the pistol to civil court and most likely had his pistol returned. The problem with the P08, P38, and K98k is that there are duplicate serial numbers in all of them and among them. If the police report had only the serial number and "German Pistol", the owner would stand little chance of getting it back in court. The police report would have to have ALL the necessary data on the firearm to be of use in court. If you are accused of having a stolen weapon and are taken to court, it would be best to be represented by counsel. Any good attorney would have the information at hand that shows that the serial number alone is duplicated many times, and that there is not enough description to say with certainty that the firearm in question is actually the accusers. If you had recorded the serial number with suffix and the year of manufacture and/or manufacturer, there would be little doubt who was the rightful owner. The firearm in question would probably be held by the court until the lawsuit was settled.

02-27-2001, 10:40 PM	#11
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Strange but true Very good points. Photo's (not digital) are probably a good thing to have. (Many courtrooms now allow only Polaroid pics to be used as evidence since they can't be modified with software).