luger mystery Problem

alee64 · 05-16-2008, 01:17 PM

Type: 1939 S/42
Problem: Sometimes the trigger works and sometimes it don't.
I've replaced all of the springs, including trigger bar spring.
observation: when you pull the trigger and all is well, you can see the trigger bar spring and trigger bar plunger bulge when the trigger is pulled. (thats normal)
something happens sometimes (all of the time) and when you pull the trigger theres no snap of the firing pin, and the trigger bar plunger and trigger bar spring stop bulging. What changes?????
Frustrating!!
now, all I have to do to make it work again is to toggle it back all the way and let it slam forward real hard and then it works again............
Any Help would be much Appreciated, Andy

John Sabato · 05-16-2008, 01:35 PM

Andy,

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

Sounds like the spring loaded pin on the end of thr trigger bar (actually the disconnector) is sticking inside the bar due to dirt or old grease... soak the end of the trigger bar in penetrating fluid (liquid wrench for instance) and make sure that it moves in and out freely. Once you have freedom of movement then use a good gun oil on it and try it again.

If this doesn't work, let me know here in this thread. Good Luck.

alee64 · 05-16-2008, 01:48 PM

Mr. Sabato, Thank you! For the last few day's (sleeping on this Problem) that seems Exactly the Problem!
taking the trigger bar out, the spring loaded pin seems to move in and out freely. but that must be the Problem!
theres not much else left!
Thanks Again! Andy

John Sabato · 05-16-2008, 02:17 PM

Andy, lets hear a report from you on how well the gun functions with ammo and how well you can shoot it!

alee64 · 05-16-2008, 02:40 PM

you got it!

alee64 · 05-16-2008, 06:23 PM

Problem not solved yet!
plunger moves freely! Here's the funny part: I make the problem occur. just hold the trigger when pulling the toggle back! and the trigger won't work!
the fix: pull toggle back and let it slam forward once or twice and it resets.
it's in the trigger! because the firing pin resets every time........any Ideas?

John Sabato · 05-16-2008, 07:13 PM

Check to make sure that you have plenty of freedomof movement of the the L-shaped lever in the sideplate. Also, the trigger return spring may have been replaced with a spring that is too weak. The trigger should return easily to the forward position, and subsequently the trigger lever should be pushed upward by the trigger.

One last thing. Is the sideplate snug fit, or is it wobbly when installed?

alee64 · 05-16-2008, 07:18 PM

John, The side plate has some wobble, when locked if place.

John Sabato · 05-16-2008, 10:43 PM

If the sideplate is not a good fit, it can contribute to this problem. If you **** the pistol and hold the sideplate stationary, does the problem still exist?

alee64 · 05-17-2008, 10:22 AM

Yes, holding the sideplate does not correct the problem. though it stops a little wiggle. and you can feel the pulse of the trigger lever. Being a hand fitted gun, I think it needs to be massaged by some one more qualified to make such small adjustments. IT'S SO CLOSE! and seems such a small Problem!

John Sabato · 05-17-2008, 10:47 AM

Andy, examine the L shaped lever and see if there are burrs on the upper portion. There should be bevel there that allows the spring loaded button to slide under it to be ready for the next shot after firing.
There is an E-Book by Gerard Henrotin that explains how the Luger works. It is the book on the Luger Mechanicals. You can download the book and study the mechanism and you may be able to figure out what is wrong all by yourself.

If you are not comfortable making adjustments, then you are correct that you should have someone adjust it for you. I recommend Tom Heller for this work... You can find him hanging out in the repairs forum if there is no one closer. Don't just take it to a gunsmith unless they have LUGER experience. Most young gunsmiths don't know the Luger. Where are you located? Maybe I can recommend someone closer to you who can help and save you the shipping cost.

alee64 · 05-17-2008, 11:10 AM

John I replaced the trigger Lever, and after reading all the post I could find with people having the same problem. I slightly made the bevel on the lever slightly more aggressive.... I also polished up the plunger a little, and put a small bevel on the plunger. the trigger is Smoother, but problem still there.

I live in Mobile, Alabama, there is only one here that I think could do the Job. his Name is FRED NUSBAUM, he is a Older Gent. that Knows his stuff! I just don't know if it's Luger Stuff..........

John Sabato · 05-17-2008, 11:47 AM

The additional work that you did should have brought you closer. If Fred thinks that he can do the job, the trust level is up to you. Get and local estimate first, and then check with Tom Heller.

I still recommend the E-book for your Luger reference library...

ken d · 05-17-2008, 06:33 PM

Alee64:
Had a similar problem, tried most of the above cures, did not help.
I removed the sear bar spring and noticed the spring to be bent at an
accute angle. I removed some of the angle and reinstalled. Problem
dissappeared.

Regards Ken D

alee64 · 05-19-2008, 09:53 AM

Thanks Ken, At this Point I'll try anything! I haven't removed that Spring yet, because it seems Fine. pushing in the plunger I can't make it malfunction, was that the way yours was?

John, thank you, for your patients, and Help. I'm not in a huge Hurry, I may tinker around a Little more................then get in touch with Mr. Tom Heller!

alee64 · 05-19-2008, 03:25 PM

Hey Guys, I've taken the spring out of the disconnecter and although it seems to function fine, the spring looks like it's been broken off one end.(sharp)
can some one tell me approximately how long this spring should be?

also I must pat myself on the back, I made the side plate nice and Snug! with your directions, John
Thanks Again!

ken d · 05-19-2008, 05:50 PM

alee64:
Plunger was free on mine. My reference was to the sear bar retaining/
tension spring, opposite end to the plunger.

Regards Ken D

alee64 · 05-19-2008, 05:54 PM

gotcha Ken, I replaced that one too.
today I made the side plate real snug, and it feels better! getting real close now!!!

Lugerdoc · 05-20-2008, 12:16 PM

Andy, As you can tell from the above advise, there are many factors that can affect a good, reliable trigger pull of a luger. Your problem is one that is frequently encountered when parts are switched on lugers; I have to go thru this with every luger that I build up from parts, so have delt with it many times. I'll be pleased to look at your luger and icsolate the problem for $50 including return S&H and probably another $50 for the trigger job & testing. Lugerdoc

alee64 · 05-20-2008, 04:43 PM

Thank You Lugerdoc for taking a Look. can you email or PM me the best way to ship? and where to Ship? Please, Andy

05-16-2008, 01:17 PM	#1
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	luger mystery Problem Type: 1939 S/42 Problem: Sometimes the trigger works and sometimes it don't. I've replaced all of the springs, including trigger bar spring. observation: when you pull the trigger and all is well, you can see the trigger bar spring and trigger bar plunger bulge when the trigger is pulled. (thats normal) something happens sometimes (all of the time) and when you pull the trigger theres no snap of the firing pin, and the trigger bar plunger and trigger bar spring stop bulging. What changes????? Frustrating!! now, all I have to do to make it work again is to toggle it back all the way and let it slam forward real hard and then it works again............ Any Help would be much Appreciated, Andy

05-16-2008, 01:35 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Andy, Welcome to the Lugerforum. Sounds like the spring loaded pin on the end of thr trigger bar (actually the disconnector) is sticking inside the bar due to dirt or old grease... soak the end of the trigger bar in penetrating fluid (liquid wrench for instance) and make sure that it moves in and out freely. Once you have freedom of movement then use a good gun oil on it and try it again. If this doesn't work, let me know here in this thread. Good Luck. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-16-2008, 02:17 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Andy, lets hear a report from you on how well the gun functions with ammo and how well you can shoot it! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-16-2008, 07:13 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Check to make sure that you have plenty of freedomof movement of the the L-shaped lever in the sideplate. Also, the trigger return spring may have been replaced with a spring that is too weak. The trigger should return easily to the forward position, and subsequently the trigger lever should be pushed upward by the trigger. One last thing. Is the sideplate snug fit, or is it wobbly when installed? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-16-2008, 10:43 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	If the sideplate is not a good fit, it can contribute to this problem. If you ** the pistol and hold the sideplate stationary, does the problem still exist? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator** with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-16-2008, 01:48 PM	#3
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mr. Sabato, Thank you! For the last few day's (sleeping on this Problem) that seems Exactly the Problem! taking the trigger bar out, the spring loaded pin seems to move in and out freely. but that must be the Problem! theres not much else left! Thanks Again! Andy

05-16-2008, 02:40 PM	#5
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	you got it!

05-16-2008, 06:23 PM	#6
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Problem not solved yet! plunger moves freely! Here's the funny part: I make the problem occur. just hold the trigger when pulling the toggle back! and the trigger won't work! the fix: pull toggle back and let it slam forward once or twice and it resets. it's in the trigger! because the firing pin resets every time........any Ideas?

05-16-2008, 07:18 PM	#8
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, The side plate has some wobble, when locked if place.

05-17-2008, 10:22 AM	#10
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, holding the sideplate does not correct the problem. though it stops a little wiggle. and you can feel the pulse of the trigger lever. Being a hand fitted gun, I think it needs to be massaged by some one more qualified to make such small adjustments. IT'S SO CLOSE! and seems such a small Problem!

05-17-2008, 10:47 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Andy, examine the L shaped lever and see if there are burrs on the upper portion. There should be bevel there that allows the spring loaded button to slide under it to be ready for the next shot after firing. There is an E-Book by Gerard Henrotin that explains how the Luger works. It is the book on the Luger Mechanicals. You can download the book and study the mechanism and you may be able to figure out what is wrong all by yourself. If you are not comfortable making adjustments, then you are correct that you should have someone adjust it for you. I recommend Tom Heller for this work... You can find him hanging out in the repairs forum if there is no one closer. Don't just take it to a gunsmith unless they have LUGER experience. Most young gunsmiths don't know the Luger. Where are you located? Maybe I can recommend someone closer to you who can help and save you the shipping cost. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-17-2008, 11:10 AM	#12
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John I replaced the trigger Lever, and after reading all the post I could find with people having the same problem. I slightly made the bevel on the lever slightly more aggressive.... I also polished up the plunger a little, and put a small bevel on the plunger. the trigger is Smoother, but problem still there. I live in Mobile, Alabama, there is only one here that I think could do the Job. his Name is FRED NUSBAUM, he is a Older Gent. that Knows his stuff! I just don't know if it's Luger Stuff..........

05-17-2008, 11:47 AM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	The additional work that you did should have brought you closer. If Fred thinks that he can do the job, the trust level is up to you. Get and local estimate first, and then check with Tom Heller. I still recommend the E-book for your Luger reference library... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-17-2008, 06:33 PM	#14
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Alee64: Had a similar problem, tried most of the above cures, did not help. I removed the sear bar spring and noticed the spring to be bent at an accute angle. I removed some of the angle and reinstalled. Problem dissappeared. Regards Ken D

05-19-2008, 09:53 AM	#15
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ken, At this Point I'll try anything! I haven't removed that Spring yet, because it seems Fine. pushing in the plunger I can't make it malfunction, was that the way yours was? John, thank you, for your patients, and Help. I'm not in a huge Hurry, I may tinker around a Little more................then get in touch with Mr. Tom Heller!

05-19-2008, 03:25 PM	#16
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey Guys, I've taken the spring out of the disconnecter and although it seems to function fine, the spring looks like it's been broken off one end.(sharp) can some one tell me approximately how long this spring should be? also I must pat myself on the back, I made the side plate nice and Snug! with your directions, John Thanks Again!

05-19-2008, 05:50 PM	#17
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	alee64: Plunger was free on mine. My reference was to the sear bar retaining/ tension spring, opposite end to the plunger. Regards Ken D

05-19-2008, 05:54 PM	#18
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	gotcha Ken, I replaced that one too. today I made the side plate real snug, and it feels better! getting real close now!!!

05-20-2008, 12:16 PM	#19
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Andy, As you can tell from the above advise, there are many factors that can affect a good, reliable trigger pull of a luger. Your problem is one that is frequently encountered when parts are switched on lugers; I have to go thru this with every luger that I build up from parts, so have delt with it many times. I'll be pleased to look at your luger and icsolate the problem for $50 including return S&H and probably another $50 for the trigger job & testing. Lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

05-20-2008, 04:43 PM	#20
alee64 User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank You Lugerdoc for taking a Look. can you email or PM me the best way to ship? and where to Ship? Please, Andy