Rationale behind partial serial #'s like 56xx, etc.

loogee · 10-11-2008, 09:13 PM

I've often wondered why a gun owner is reluctant to disclose the full serial no. of a gun.....especially in a forum such as this where info is needed. I've seen some 38xx's......or 8xxx. There were even picts posted with the last two digits painted over....???? Fear that the gun is stolen, and the rightful owner may recognize the SN ? I'm sure there's a simple explanation....but right now it's not appearing on my internal monitor.

Edward Tinker · 10-11-2008, 10:31 PM

There are many supposed reasons;

1. It is something that is more worrisome for a dealer and probablly why many folks are leery. A person would buy a pistol and swap out internal parts (numbered) and the person would then send it back to the dealer and say they decided against it.

2. That folks are worried that their gun might be "claimed" by someone as having been stolen...

3. That by showing the numbers their guns could be "tracked" by the gov't...

So, yes, it can be hard to figure out why someone is worried about their serial numbers.

policeluger · 10-11-2008, 11:15 PM

Ed.....from what I hear/see around here #3 is a lot of folks fear....

alanint · 10-12-2008, 07:20 AM

Folks give the goverment a lot more credit for competence and organization than it deserves.
Although now computerized, the ATF does not really have the means to track all the firearms transactions that take place in this country.
A couple of years ago the ATF NFA branch was forced to admit in court that their records were less than 50% correct/complete!! Now this is in regard to the registry and tracking of machineguns, destructive devises, silencers, etc.!!
They will never have the resources to come after your prized Luger. They only attempt thorough gun traces when its involves a high profile, high presure to solve criminal cases. Even then their success rate here is less than 50%
When you hear cases that were solved with a gun trace it usually involves the guy who bought a gun days before killing his wife, friend, etc. They have a limited geographic area to work in, they have their suspects name, they have the caliber of the weapon and a number of other factors to aid them. They are essentially working backward from an incident to its roots.
I'm not saying don't be leery of the ATF or any other goverment agency, for that matter. I'm just pointing out that unless they busted the meth lab in your basement, your gun collection is probably safe.

alvin · 10-12-2008, 07:52 AM

I know there is another reason. It's hard to remember full s/n..... too lazy to look up in the bound book, or too lazy to unlock the safe to find the full s/n. So, 321xxx

For many mass produced guns, minor variations was made in a few thousand volume, and are called "Transitional" by collectors, major variations were made in tens of thousands, and are entitled "Early", "Late", or "Standard", etc.... for most guns, the last 2 or three s/n digits are usually not important for communication purpose, unless the s/n appears very close on the boundary of transition, or it belongs to a very tiny variation, e.g. trial guns.

loogee · 10-12-2008, 06:02 PM

So the govt. isn't smart enough to track a 1938 S/42 Luger with a 54xx serial no., and 90% finish, discussed in a Luger forum, and owned by a guy with a user name of "crusty billy".......??

Edward Tinker · 10-12-2008, 09:00 PM

why would they?

Dwight Gruber · 10-13-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alvin
...For many mass produced guns, minor variations was made in a few thousand volume, and are called "Transitional" by collectors, major variations were made in tens of thousands, and are entitled "Early", "Late", or "Standard", etc.... for most guns, the last 2 or three s/n digits are usually not important for communication purpose, unless the s/n appears very close on the boundary of transition, or it belongs to a very tiny variation, e.g. trial guns.

At the risk of belaboring the point...

The Luger pistol is not one of those "...many mass produced guns...". In our case, in the absence of existing documentation, the situation is reversed--knowing a gun's serial number and associated characteristics helps refine the known transition boundaries. Also, there are many questions commonly asked on these Forums which cannot be adequately answered without the complete serial number.

This practice of disguised serial number reporting is very frustrating to the researchers, authors, and data collectors among us, as well as those collectors who simply strive for a complete understanding of their Lugers. An incomplete serial number provides no value as a data point..

--Dwight

10-11-2008, 09:13 PM	#1
loogee User Join Date: May 2008 Location: WI Posts: 84 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rationale behind partial serial #'s like 56xx, etc. I've often wondered why a gun owner is reluctant to disclose the full serial no. of a gun.....especially in a forum such as this where info is needed. I've seen some 38xx's......or 8xxx. There were even picts posted with the last two digits painted over....???? Fear that the gun is stolen, and the rightful owner may recognize the SN ? I'm sure there's a simple explanation....but right now it's not appearing on my internal monitor.

10-11-2008, 10:31 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	There are many supposed reasons; 1. It is something that is more worrisome for a dealer and probablly why many folks are leery. A person would buy a pistol and swap out internal parts (numbered) and the person would then send it back to the dealer and say they decided against it. 2. That folks are worried that their gun might be "claimed" by someone as having been stolen... 3. That by showing the numbers their guns could be "tracked" by the gov't... So, yes, it can be hard to figure out why someone is worried about their serial numbers. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-12-2008, 09:00 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	why would they? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-11-2008, 11:15 PM	#3
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ed.....from what I hear/see around here #3 is a lot of folks fear....

10-12-2008, 07:20 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Folks give the goverment a lot more credit for competence and organization than it deserves. Although now computerized, the ATF does not really have the means to track all the firearms transactions that take place in this country. A couple of years ago the ATF NFA branch was forced to admit in court that their records were less than 50% correct/complete!! Now this is in regard to the registry and tracking of machineguns, destructive devises, silencers, etc.!! They will never have the resources to come after your prized Luger. They only attempt thorough gun traces when its involves a high profile, high presure to solve criminal cases. Even then their success rate here is less than 50% When you hear cases that were solved with a gun trace it usually involves the guy who bought a gun days before killing his wife, friend, etc. They have a limited geographic area to work in, they have their suspects name, they have the caliber of the weapon and a number of other factors to aid them. They are essentially working backward from an incident to its roots. I'm not saying don't be leery of the ATF or any other goverment agency, for that matter. I'm just pointing out that unless they busted the meth lab in your basement, your gun collection is probably safe.

10-12-2008, 07:52 AM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I know there is another reason. It's hard to remember full s/n..... too lazy to look up in the bound book, or too lazy to unlock the safe to find the full s/n. So, 321xxx For many mass produced guns, minor variations was made in a few thousand volume, and are called "Transitional" by collectors, major variations were made in tens of thousands, and are entitled "Early", "Late", or "Standard", etc.... for most guns, the last 2 or three s/n digits are usually not important for communication purpose, unless the s/n appears very close on the boundary of transition, or it belongs to a very tiny variation, e.g. trial guns.

10-12-2008, 06:02 PM	#6
loogee User Join Date: May 2008 Location: WI Posts: 84 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So the govt. isn't smart enough to track a 1938 S/42 Luger with a 54xx serial no., and 90% finish, discussed in a Luger forum, and owned by a guy with a user name of "crusty billy".......??