Need advice: 1939 "42" code Luger - Bakelite grips?

[mrerick]

Hi,

I'm posting to get some advice on a new to me 1939 "42" code Luger that I'm purchasing. I'm in the 3 day inspection period.

The gun is an all matching Luger s/n 7190r with 1939 receiver and "42" code toggle.

The grips are not original to the gun, and have been replaced with a type 1 Bakelite grip (Left) and a type 4 Bakelite grip (Right).

The seller indicated that he bought this gun from Ralph Shattuck about 15 years ago.

The Luger is in excellent mechanical condition, and has a good bore.

I need advice on a couple of things:

- There is considerable finish wear, particularly on the rear handstrap, forward breech block and extractor.

At best, I'd estimate about 75% finish coverage. At what point does original factory finish wear take the Luger out of the "Collector" category?

- The bakelite grips are of two types. The left grip is a Type 1. It shows evidence of having been an original brown HK grip that has been lacquered over with black. While mostly intact, it shows brown highlights.

Were the original type 1 Mauser bakelite grips actually painted brown HK grips, or were they originally cast in black bakelite?

The right Type 4 grip also looks like it's been painted.

Both grips show characteristic screw holes as pictured in Hallock and Joop's "The Mauser Parabellum". Because of the lacquer they don't show the sharpness of those pictured.

Does the mismatch of the grips decrease their value, particularly if I decide to try and replace them with proper wooden grips?

- - - - -

Finally, I would appreciate if someone could PM me with some ideas of value of the Luger.

I'll prepare and post pictures shortly.

Thanks again,


Marc

[Norme]

Hi Marc, I don't know how much you're paying for this gun, but unless you are looking for a shooter, I think you should pass. Regards, Norm

[mrerick]

Here are pictures:

[alanint]

I agree. Too many issues.

I would also perhaps impose upon the people managing Ralph Shattuck's estate and see if the serial number is in his books. You may discover there is a description and an original selling price in his records as well.

[mrerick]

Here are more:

I'd also like opinions on whether the grips look original.

Thanks again, Marc

[FNorm]

condition: While it is really up to the purchaser, I've read most consider 85% and above as collectable

FN

[Frank]

Hi Mark, I call such a Luger a "semi-shooter". It's all matching, but with a poor finish. I would price it above a shooter, but well below a collectable.

Since most 1939 Code 42 Lugers didn't have numbered grips, a decent pair of un-numbered or a pair of post war grips would be correct.

The grips aren't worth much, IMO.

Good Luck!

[tau-delt]

Marc... I would agree with you on the types and IMO they are both original. Type 1 grips are an exact copy of the HK coarse brown grips and I believe made in the same molds just a different color.

My guess would be someone painted them to make them look the same although in one of your very good pictures seems to show the brown color of the L/H grip.

If they were mine I would probably try to remove the paint.

Attaching picture of Type 1 on left and coarse brown HK on the right.

If you decide to sell them, I would be interested but really don't know what kind of $$$ value to put on them....

[mrerick]

First, thanks to Dave for the update on HK grips.

I've just spent a couple of hours re-inspecting the Luger and checking my reference books.

From Hallock and Joop "The Mauser Parabellum", the type of salt blue used in 1939 is referred to as "Type c. Early Salt-Blue" and is defined as: "Many well used pistols will show a fading blue on receiver, toggle train, grip straps or side plate". It was known for the bluing to not be uniform.

While the bluing is pretty thin, I can see tones of an almost translucent blue in areas that appear 50% or better in the white.

If members would feel comfortable doing so, I'd appreciate some value estimates posted to this thread.

Thanks again,

Marc

[Tomathvl]

OK, I'll start with $700 to $850. You can probably sell the grips for a set of original replacements. JMHO.
Tom

[tau-delt]

Marc... Is there a mag with the gun?? Pictures of that would help.

[mrerick]

Hi Dave,

Yes - the magazine is an aluminum based, rolled steel, blued magazine in the same "r" block as the Luger, but with a different s/n about 5000 away. It is also E/63 proofed. It's in very good condition with good clear original markings.

I'll post pictures later when I can retrieve it.

Marc

[triberg]

If you paid under $1,000.....I'd consider it a keeper. I would guess that Ralph probably sold this gun as a "shooter" and it probably ran about $550 back 10-15 years ago.

[MFC]

Marc,
You stated that the extractor has finish wear. In the photos the extractor looks like it's strawed, which isn't correct. I've seen original finish red or plum colored extractors, but not straw.

[mrerick]

Hi Mike,

I don't think that the extractor is strawed. It looks like it's been hardened and the finish has worn away on top. It's most likely matching.

Marc

[Norme]

Hi Marc, If it started out like this, it's hard to believe it would wear in the way you suggest. Best regards, Norm

[mrerick]

Hi, Here are pictures of the magazine:

[mrerick]

Norm,

I think that the color is the way that deep FeO2 rust oxide is being picked up by the camera.

It may be straw (was that done to extractors?) but the layer has a very consistent look.

Here's a closer picture.

Is the extractor fit suspect, or is that normal?

Marc

[tau-delt]

Marc... Mag looks good to me and is certainly period to the gun.

[Norme]

Hi Marc, I don't know about the extractor fit, it could be OK. The mag. looks nice too. That said, this gun seems to have a long history of being messed with. I think that trying to return this piece to "authentic" condition, is a task on a par with the restoration of virginity. Best regards, Norm