Gen JC Breckenridge's Luger

rcook7440 · 11-18-2010, 06:35 PM

I recently acquired this early Luger and was looking around the forum out of interest as this is the first Luger I've ever owned. It belonged to a historically significant Marine Corp General, J.C. Breckinridge who was commissioned in 1899 during the Spanish-American War. He was promoted to Captain in 1901 and purchased this Luger to either replace or augment his service revolver. He carried it in a shoulder-holster which he signed (both front and back) "J C Breckinridge Captain U.S.M.C.". The James Carson Breckinridge Professional Library in Quantico as well as the Navy ship "USS General JC Breckinridge" (AP-176) are both named in his honor.

The Breckinridge family dates back to pre-Revolutionary America and includes numerous political and military members including John Cabell Breckinridge, the 14th US Vice President.

... thought I would share the story as well as a couple of pictures of my new Luger.

nukem556 · 11-18-2010, 07:06 PM

lucky guy....absolutely stunning condition! (of course, a Marine always takes care of his weaponry) congrats!

Norme · 11-18-2010, 07:22 PM

Hi Randy, Welcome to the forum. You certainly opened with a bang! It's a beautiful gun with great provenance. You'll have a tough time topping this one. Regards, Norm

Ron Wood · 11-18-2010, 08:02 PM

Wonderful! Now for the questions. Is it ah American Eagle? Are you willing to post the serial number for the data base? If you do not want public disclosure, would you consider sending a Private Message? I do not divulge serial numbers associted with the owner without permission. Any more photos? (Please!)
Thanks,
Ron

DHENRY · 11-18-2010, 08:16 PM

Thanks for a great post.
Realy a stunning pistol with rich provenance.
Don

rcook7440 · 11-18-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Wonderful! Now for the questions. Is it ah American Eagle? Are you willing to post the serial number for the data base? If you do not want public disclosure, would you consider sending a Private Message? I do not divulge serial numbers zssocited with the owner without permission. Any more photos? (Please!)
Thanks,
Ron

Hi Ron, There is no American Eagle. The SN is 5037 all numbers matching however there is no # on the magazine. There are Crown B and U markings on several parts as well as "GERMANY" stamped below the SN. The gun is in remarkable shape but it does have some very light pitting on the right side of the barrel where the previous owner, not a gun guy, had it stored in a sock (I was mortified). The bore, however, is absolutely perfect. I have detailed ownership from Gen Breckinridge to me but because it was passed down through inheritance it wasnt always stored correctly.

I'm happy to provide additional photos if your interested. Just let me know what your looking for.

Randy

rcook7440 · 11-18-2010, 09:05 PM

I also acquired another pistol from the same person. Although not a Luger, it has an amazing story associated with it as well. It's a Japanese Nambu Type 14 that was the personal side-arm of the Chief of Police of Nagasaki during WWII. The owner was the retired Marine Col that the Chief of Police surrendered his weapon to 1 week after the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. He kept the gun as a spoil of war until just before his death in 2004. I'm happy to post a couple pictures of the Nambu and holster as well if anyone is interested.

Randy

sheepherder · 11-18-2010, 09:41 PM

I'm sure we would all like to see more pics of both pistols. I'm curious about the Luger shoulder holster...This is a pre-WWI pistol + holster rig??? That would be interesting...

Type 14 Nambu's are intriguing...Pics of that would be welcome as well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcook7440

I'm happy to provide additional photos if your interested. Just let me know what your looking for.

Pics of the serial number area; bottom of barrel next to the receiver (should be another serial); any markings on the barrel, on the receiver, on the front or back of the grip; pics showing the straw on the safety, mag release, ejector; underside of the grips [markings?], if you can take them off [gently!]; top pic of the toggle assembly; any other interesting markings you might think original...

There's more, but that's all I can think of right now...

Hugo Borchardt · 11-18-2010, 10:15 PM

Phenomenol! Thanks for sharing photos and story, as well as sharing the # for Ron's database.

rcook7440 · 11-18-2010, 10:17 PM

Postino, I'll put a few more pics up later tonight but there are 2 more pictures I put in the gallery (links below) that show the holster. It does not appear to be a military holster and is only marked with E.S.CO. Seattle and also a flower near the bottom. At around 110 years old the holster is showing its age much more than the Luger

I'll include a couple better pics of the holster as well tonight.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=1476
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=1478

Ron Wood · 11-18-2010, 10:34 PM

A very nice early Commercial with great historical ties. Thank you for the additional info. The holster is quite interesting. It looks like pretty good quality work. I wonder if a little research can turn up the maker in Seattle.

rcook7440 · 11-18-2010, 10:58 PM

Additional pictures with all the markings visible when assembled. I have seen it disassembled once to verify all numbers matched before I purchased it but I dont recall if there was anything on the inside of the grips - that was some time ago.

rcook7440 · 11-18-2010, 11:08 PM

.. couple more. Unfortunately the bottom of the mag (wooden mag grip) was cracked so the one on the pistol is a replacement. One of the pics shows the original which has been repaired. I keep it with the documentation to prevent further damage.

Last few are the Nambu mentioned above from Nagasaki along with its holster, spare firing pin and cleaning rod - also have an unopened box of Japanese ammo for it from 1939.

DavidJayUden · 11-18-2010, 11:50 PM

What is stamped on the left side of the front toggle link?
dju

rcook7440 · 11-19-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

What is stamped on the left side of the front toggle link?
dju

Crown B over Crown U

MFC · 11-19-2010, 01:20 AM

Hi Randy,
Beautiful M1900 commercial Luger!! You don't see many in the US. Most are American Eagles. Thanks for all the eye candy.

Edward Tinker · 11-19-2010, 04:03 AM

Its a very nice gun, I love it.

In regards to provinance, and to enlighten myself on the documentation you mentioned. To show true provinance, you need info on the person, info on the gun, a statement from the familiy that he owned it, or a statement or written documentation that he owned it.

In the field of looking up your ancestary (my mind is blank on what it is called), a true historian uses two pieces of evidence to prove each aspect. So, that is what I use for provinance. Sounds like you have a really nice solid piece of history there.

Ed

sheepherder · 11-19-2010, 08:15 AM

Both nice looking pistols and the holster is very interesting...It looks much like the "western" rigs favored by late 19th century gunmen...I wonder if it wasn't originally intended for a revolver???

The Nambu is the style I prefer, with the "Winter" trigger guard...

Both are excellent examples and I must congratulate you on owning such fine pieces!!!

rcook7440 · 11-19-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Its a very nice gun, I love it.

In regards to provinance, and to enlighten myself on the documentation you mentioned. To show true provinance, you need info on the person, info on the gun, a statement from the familiy that he owned it, or a statement or written documentation that he owned it.

In the field of looking up your ancestary (my mind is blank on what it is called), a true historian uses two pieces of evidence to prove each aspect. So, that is what I use for provinance. Sounds like you have a really nice solid piece of history there.
Ed

Col Frederick S. Aldridge, USMC retired to Jacksonville FL in 2003 and, before his death, he traded the 2 guns to a friend (a guy I shoot with every week). Col Aldridge wrote a letter on his personal letterhead detailing the lineage of the Luger as summarized below:

Gen Breckinridge gave the gun to Col Aldridge's father-in-law, Col Sydney Smith Lee when they were stationed together during one of his assignments in Quantico VA. (cant be sure what year as Gen Breckinridge had numerous assignments to Quantico)

After Col Lee's death the gun was transferred to his daughter, Mary Belle Lee who was married to Col Aldridge above.

Its been relatively easy to verify genealogy as both families are very famous. Sydney Smith Lee was the grand-nephew of Gen Robert E. Lee.

Caveat:
Col Aldridge failed to note the serial # in his letter which concerned me. But at the end of the day this is only a hobby for me and the opportunity to own and preserve this weapon was worth the price of admission even if I have nothing more than Col Aldridge's story. I would imagine the 2 signatures on the holster certainly help support the claim of lineage as well.

George Anderson · 11-19-2010, 10:54 AM

Randy, what state do you live in?

11-18-2010, 06:35 PM	#1
rcook7440 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Gen JC Breckenridge's Luger I recently acquired this early Luger and was looking around the forum out of interest as this is the first Luger I've ever owned. It belonged to a historically significant Marine Corp General, J.C. Breckinridge who was commissioned in 1899 during the Spanish-American War. He was promoted to Captain in 1901 and purchased this Luger to either replace or augment his service revolver. He carried it in a shoulder-holster which he signed (both front and back) "J C Breckinridge Captain U.S.M.C.". The James Carson Breckinridge Professional Library in Quantico as well as the Navy ship "USS General JC Breckinridge" (AP-176) are both named in his honor. The Breckinridge family dates back to pre-Revolutionary America and includes numerous political and military members including John Cabell Breckinridge, the 14th US Vice President. ... thought I would share the story as well as a couple of pictures of my new Luger. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by rcook7440; 11-18-2010 at 06:36 PM. Reason: spelling error

11-18-2010, 08:02 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Wonderful! Now for the questions. Is it ah American Eagle? Are you willing to post the serial number for the data base? If you do not want public disclosure, would you consider sending a Private Message? I do not divulge serial numbers associted with the owner without permission. Any more photos? (Please!) Thanks, Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 11-18-2010 at 10:32 PM.

11-18-2010, 10:15 PM	#9
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 340 Thanked 133 Times in 47 Posts	Phenomenol! Thanks for sharing photos and story, as well as sharing the # for Ron's database. __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

11-18-2010, 10:17 PM	#10
rcook7440 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Postino, I'll put a few more pics up later tonight but there are 2 more pictures I put in the gallery (links below) that show the holster. It does not appear to be a military holster and is only marked with E.S.CO. Seattle and also a flower near the bottom. At around 110 years old the holster is showing its age much more than the Luger I'll include a couple better pics of the holster as well tonight. http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=1476 http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=1478 Last edited by rcook7440; 11-18-2010 at 11:29 PM.

11-18-2010, 10:34 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	A very nice early Commercial with great historical ties. Thank you for the additional info. The holster is quite interesting. It looks like pretty good quality work. I wonder if a little research can turn up the maker in Seattle. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-18-2010, 07:06 PM	#2
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	lucky guy....absolutely stunning condition! (of course, a Marine always takes care of his weaponry) congrats!

11-18-2010, 07:22 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Randy, Welcome to the forum. You certainly opened with a bang! It's a beautiful gun with great provenance. You'll have a tough time topping this one. Regards, Norm

11-18-2010, 08:16 PM	#5
DHENRY User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 16 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for a great post. Realy a stunning pistol with rich provenance. Don

11-18-2010, 09:05 PM	#7
rcook7440 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I also acquired another pistol from the same person. Although not a Luger, it has an amazing story associated with it as well. It's a Japanese Nambu Type 14 that was the personal side-arm of the Chief of Police of Nagasaki during WWII. The owner was the retired Marine Col that the Chief of Police surrendered his weapon to 1 week after the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. He kept the gun as a spoil of war until just before his death in 2004. I'm happy to post a couple pictures of the Nambu and holster as well if anyone is interested. Randy

11-18-2010, 10:58 PM	#12
rcook7440 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Additional pictures with all the markings visible when assembled. I have seen it disassembled once to verify all numbers matched before I purchased it but I dont recall if there was anything on the inside of the grips - that was some time ago. Attached Thumbnails

11-18-2010, 11:08 PM	#13
rcook7440 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	.. couple more. Unfortunately the bottom of the mag (wooden mag grip) was cracked so the one on the pistol is a replacement. One of the pics shows the original which has been repaired. I keep it with the documentation to prevent further damage. Last few are the Nambu mentioned above from Nagasaki along with its holster, spare firing pin and cleaning rod - also have an unopened box of Japanese ammo for it from 1939. Attached Thumbnails

11-18-2010, 11:50 PM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	What is stamped on the left side of the front toggle link? dju

11-19-2010, 01:20 AM	#16
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Randy, Beautiful M1900 commercial Luger!! You don't see many in the US. Most are American Eagles. Thanks for all the eye candy. __________________ Mike C.

11-19-2010, 04:03 AM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Its a very nice gun, I love it. In regards to provinance, and to enlighten myself on the documentation you mentioned. To show true provinance, you need info on the person, info on the gun, a statement from the familiy that he owned it, or a statement or written documentation that he owned it. In the field of looking up your ancestary (my mind is blank on what it is called), a true historian uses two pieces of evidence to prove each aspect. So, that is what I use for provinance. Sounds like you have a really nice solid piece of history there. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-19-2010, 08:15 AM	#18
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Both nice looking pistols and the holster is very interesting...It looks much like the "western" rigs favored by late 19th century gunmen...I wonder if it wasn't originally intended for a revolver??? The Nambu is the style I prefer, with the "Winter" trigger guard... Both are excellent examples and I must congratulate you on owning such fine pieces!!! __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

11-19-2010, 10:54 AM	#20
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Randy, what state do you live in?