New PPK

Rbrooks45 · 03-29-2011, 04:23 PM

just picked up a new PPK this weekend.

saab-bob · 03-29-2011, 04:55 PM

Very nice!

Don't be shy, give us the story.

Is the previous owners name engraved on the slide?

EB

alanint · 03-29-2011, 05:10 PM

I believe Walther's records are all still intact, so if this piece is authentic it is documented..

Rbrooks45 · 03-29-2011, 05:21 PM

No I don't believe it is. I think it was a post WW2 engraving made for GI's or as a gift for a party member. The slide is wrong for the period, the front should be at a 90 degrea angle not round.

It is nice though and I had wanted it since the 1st time I had seen it. The friend that I bought it from had it for about 10 years ago and promised that I had the first chance if he ever wanted to sell, which he did this weekend.

The gun did appear in Walther's table top book which my friend was nice enough to give me a copy of. I am happy to have it and almost missed my chance, he had recieved a good offer from the Walther museum.

sheepherder · 03-29-2011, 06:36 PM

Well, it has the Schutzstaffel dagger motto on it, plus the name H. Himmler...

Why don't you see if you can find out who it belonged to???

saab-bob · 03-29-2011, 06:47 PM

Maybe this gun has more provinance then you realize?

What G.I. that fought in WW2, would make a pistol with Himmler's name on it?

Why would the Walther museum want it,if the gun was made as a souvenir?

Just thinking out loud.

Bob

alanint · 03-29-2011, 07:07 PM

I'm not sure any "party members" were having pistols like this commissioned after WW2!!

This pistol is almost identical in my memory to a fantasy piece I saw being engraved at Ken Eyster's Centerburgh, Ohio gun shop back in the mid 1970s for a collector.

Could it have made its way all the way to Germany??

Dan44 · 03-29-2011, 11:08 PM

It's a post war pistol. Look at the slide.

Hugo Borchardt · 03-29-2011, 11:48 PM

Whatever it is, it is a darn nice engraved piece. Congratulations!

Thor · 03-30-2011, 12:50 AM

I saw pictures of this PPK many years ago, what a beauty!

Rbrooks45 · 03-30-2011, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan44

It's a post war pistol. Look at the slide.

I agree with Dan44 that the slide is wrong, thats why I felt it was post WW2 GI souvineer engraved. I had spoken with an engraver who said his first after war jobs was knocking out engraved pistols for GI's at the local Rod ang Gun club.

On the other hand this pistol is shown in Manfred Kerstens book " Walther a German Legend", on page 96.

Any way it will be in my collection for a while.

John Sabato · 03-30-2011, 10:10 AM

COngrats on your acquisition! A beautiful Walther for sure.

alanint · 03-30-2011, 10:53 AM

I was intrigued by the date, "November 9, 1944" on the gun. It may or may not be the gun's serial number. I think it has further significance to the original owner.
A little research revealed that this was the day nazi troops were purged from the island of Walcheren; hardly an event a nazi would commemorate. Another more intriguing possibility is this;
November 9th, according to the Pagan Daybook, is the Feast Day of Quatuor Coronati, the Four Crowned Martyrs, an ancient and mysterious celebration recognised both by Freemasons and the Roman Catholic Church (see also Quattro Coronati). It's origins date back to at least the Fourth Century and quite possibly even earlier.

302 November 9 According to Masonic tradition, four mysterious men, now known as the Quatuor Coronati, are said to have been executed in Pannonia, an area of present day Austria southwest of the Danube River. Masonic legends describe the Quatuor Coronati, as four stonemasons, thus the Masonic connection. (Ars Quatuor Coronati, Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076, London)

305 November 8/9 According to the Roman Catholic Church, four unknown men are executed during the reign of the Roman emperor Diocletian. Their identities, the reasons for their executions, and even the place of their deaths remain a mystery. The Roman Church later claimed that they were four (possibly five) talented sculptors in the quarries of Pannonia who in 305 had refused to carve a stone image of the Roman god Aesculapius for a pagan temple. For this they were condemned to death as Christians, put into leaden caskets and drowned in the River Save. Later another legend sprang up in Rome, according to which four Christian soldiers (cornicularii) suffered martydom at Rome in 307, two years after the deaths of the sculptors in Pannonia. Their offense was refusing to offer sacrifice to Aesculapius. Both stories lack historical foundation and are merely tentative explanations of the name Quatuor Coronati, a name given to a group of really authenticated martyrs who were buried in the catatomb of Sts. Peter and Marcellinus, the real origin of which, however, is unknown. (The Catholic Encyclopedia)

What does this all mean? I have no idea!!! Any other theories??

Rbrooks45 · 03-30-2011, 12:51 PM

I'm not sure as to why that date. I feel it may have been something to the original owner.

The photo shows a mark on the front strap which is the number the Germans registered as it's serial number and was not a factory mark, the date being in that location.

alanint · 03-30-2011, 02:20 PM

I'm surprised German law does not require the defacing of the "SS" Runes and the swastikas under the eagles.

Is there an exemption for firearms?

03-29-2011, 04:23 PM	#1
Rbrooks45 User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 66 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	New PPK just picked up a new PPK this weekend. Attached Thumbnails

03-29-2011, 04:55 PM	#2
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Very nice! Don't be shy, give us the story. Is the previous owners name engraved on the slide? EB __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

03-29-2011, 06:36 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Well, it has the Schutzstaffel dagger motto on it, plus the name H. Himmler... Why don't you see if you can find out who it belonged to??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

03-29-2011, 06:47 PM	#6
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Maybe this gun has more provinance then you realize? What G.I. that fought in WW2, would make a pistol with Himmler's name on it? Why would the Walther museum want it,if the gun was made as a souvenir? Just thinking out loud. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

03-29-2011, 11:48 PM	#9
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 340 Thanked 133 Times in 47 Posts	Whatever it is, it is a darn nice engraved piece. Congratulations! __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

03-29-2011, 05:10 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I believe Walther's records are all still intact, so if this piece is authentic it is documented..

03-29-2011, 05:21 PM	#4
Rbrooks45 User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 66 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	No I don't believe it is. I think it was a post WW2 engraving made for GI's or as a gift for a party member. The slide is wrong for the period, the front should be at a 90 degrea angle not round. It is nice though and I had wanted it since the 1st time I had seen it. The friend that I bought it from had it for about 10 years ago and promised that I had the first chance if he ever wanted to sell, which he did this weekend. The gun did appear in Walther's table top book which my friend was nice enough to give me a copy of. I am happy to have it and almost missed my chance, he had recieved a good offer from the Walther museum.

03-29-2011, 07:07 PM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I'm not sure any "party members" were having pistols like this commissioned after WW2!! This pistol is almost identical in my memory to a fantasy piece I saw being engraved at Ken Eyster's Centerburgh, Ohio gun shop back in the mid 1970s for a collector. Could it have made its way all the way to Germany??

03-29-2011, 11:08 PM	#8
Dan44 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	It's a post war pistol. Look at the slide.

03-30-2011, 12:50 AM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I saw pictures of this PPK many years ago, what a beauty! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email [email protected] ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

03-30-2011, 10:10 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	COngrats on your acquisition! A beautiful Walther for sure. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-30-2011, 10:53 AM	#13
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I was intrigued by the date, "November 9, 1944" on the gun. It may or may not be the gun's serial number. I think it has further significance to the original owner. A little research revealed that this was the day nazi troops were purged from the island of Walcheren; hardly an event a nazi would commemorate. Another more intriguing possibility is this; November 9th, according to the Pagan Daybook, is the Feast Day of Quatuor Coronati, the Four Crowned Martyrs, an ancient and mysterious celebration recognised both by Freemasons and the Roman Catholic Church (see also Quattro Coronati). It's origins date back to at least the Fourth Century and quite possibly even earlier. 302 November 9 According to Masonic tradition, four mysterious men, now known as the Quatuor Coronati, are said to have been executed in Pannonia, an area of present day Austria southwest of the Danube River. Masonic legends describe the Quatuor Coronati, as four stonemasons, thus the Masonic connection. (Ars Quatuor Coronati, Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076, London) 305 November 8/9 According to the Roman Catholic Church, four unknown men are executed during the reign of the Roman emperor Diocletian. Their identities, the reasons for their executions, and even the place of their deaths remain a mystery. The Roman Church later claimed that they were four (possibly five) talented sculptors in the quarries of Pannonia who in 305 had refused to carve a stone image of the Roman god Aesculapius for a pagan temple. For this they were condemned to death as Christians, put into leaden caskets and drowned in the River Save. Later another legend sprang up in Rome, according to which four Christian soldiers (cornicularii) suffered martydom at Rome in 307, two years after the deaths of the sculptors in Pannonia. Their offense was refusing to offer sacrifice to Aesculapius. Both stories lack historical foundation and are merely tentative explanations of the name Quatuor Coronati, a name given to a group of really authenticated martyrs who were buried in the catatomb of Sts. Peter and Marcellinus, the real origin of which, however, is unknown. (The Catholic Encyclopedia) What does this all mean? I have no idea!!! Any other theories??

03-30-2011, 12:51 PM	#14
Rbrooks45 User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 66 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I'm not sure as to why that date. I feel it may have been something to the original owner. The photo shows a mark on the front strap which is the number the Germans registered as it's serial number and was not a factory mark, the date being in that location. Attached Thumbnails

03-30-2011, 02:20 PM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I'm surprised German law does not require the defacing of the "SS" Runes and the swastikas under the eagles. Is there an exemption for firearms?