serial number placement question and transfer paperwork

MNShooter · 12-28-2011, 12:54 AM

Hello,
I am new to the site but frequent many other sites under the same name.
I am trying to learn about lugers and have a question regarding serial numbers.

Which part of the Luger (barrel, frame or receiver) is the portion that is actually the "firearm" to the atf? Or another way to put it, if a Luger had a different serial number on the barrel, receiver and frame, then which number would go on the transfer paperwork when purchasing/transferring it?

My guess is that like a Ruger MK II, it is the receiver, not the frame. I have asked numerous people (internet, gun shops, friends) and everyone gives me their own answers for different reasons.

If anyone knows for sure and it isn't a guess please respond and educate me.

Thank you

Ron Wood · 12-28-2011, 01:42 AM

It is the frame, and that isn't a guess. It seems odd, I know, since technically the "upper" (barrel, receiver and toggle train) is a firearm capable of firing a cartridge independent of the frame. But as far as the BATFE is concerned, the frame is the controlled part and requires a FFL for transfer.

John Sabato · 12-28-2011, 11:35 AM

...and please don't forget that if there is an alphabet letter character as a suffix under the number on the frame (just above the front of the trigger guard) that it is an integral part of the serial number... (e.g., 2197 u )

There may be many pistols marked 2197 in any given year of manufacture, but only a single specimen would be marked as the example. The "u" indicates that the gun was 2197th pistol manufactured in the 21st production run of serial numbers for that manufacturing year...

mrerick · 12-28-2011, 11:45 AM

The number and suffix letter (if one exists) are on the front of the frame above the trigger guard.

The number may be between 1 and 5 digits. WW-I and later Military serialized Lugers are numbered 1 to 10000 and usually have a suffix letter just under the number.

Marc

MFC · 12-28-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

The "u" indicates that the gun was 2197th pistol manufactured in the 21st production run of serial numbers for that manufacturing year...

Actually it is the 22nd... the first 10,000 don't have a suffix.
Your friendly nit picker.

John Sabato · 12-29-2011, 11:05 AM

By Golly you are right Mike... the 22nd run... I miscounted...

Thanks for the correction.

Lugerdoc · 12-29-2011, 12:23 PM

To fully identify a military luger: date of manufacture (on the chamber), toggle code (maker), PO8 (indicates 9mm 4" barrel) serial number with suffix letter, if present. Commericals without dated chamber need to be identified as to model, caliber and serial number. Some contract lugers have their own separate serial range, so in addition to the above, the exact contract, maker and serial should be noted. TH

MNShooter · 12-29-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

It is the frame, and that isn't a guess. It seems odd, I know, since technically the "upper" (barrel, receiver and toggle train) is a firearm capable of firing a cartridge independent of the frame. But as far as the BATFE is concerned, the frame is the controlled part and requires a FFL for transfer.

Ron, Thank you.

12-28-2011, 12:54 AM	#1
MNShooter New User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	serial number placement question and transfer paperwork Hello, I am new to the site but frequent many other sites under the same name. I am trying to learn about lugers and have a question regarding serial numbers. Which part of the Luger (barrel, frame or receiver) is the portion that is actually the "firearm" to the atf? Or another way to put it, if a Luger had a different serial number on the barrel, receiver and frame, then which number would go on the transfer paperwork when purchasing/transferring it? My guess is that like a Ruger MK II, it is the receiver, not the frame. I have asked numerous people (internet, gun shops, friends) and everyone gives me their own answers for different reasons. If anyone knows for sure and it isn't a guess please respond and educate me. Thank you

12-28-2011, 01:42 AM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	It is the frame, and that isn't a guess. It seems odd, I know, since technically the "upper" (barrel, receiver and toggle train) is a firearm capable of firing a cartridge independent of the frame. But as far as the BATFE is concerned, the frame is the controlled part and requires a FFL for transfer. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-28-2011, 11:35 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	...and please don't forget that if there is an alphabet letter character as a suffix under the number on the frame (just above the front of the trigger guard) that it is an integral part of the serial number... (e.g., 2197 u ) There may be many pistols marked 2197 in any given year of manufacture, but only a single specimen would be marked as the example. The "u" indicates that the gun was 2197th pistol manufactured in the 21st production run of serial numbers for that manufacturing year... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-28-2011, 11:45 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	The number and suffix letter (if one exists) are on the front of the frame above the trigger guard. The number may be between 1 and 5 digits. WW-I and later Military serialized Lugers are numbered 1 to 10000 and usually have a suffix letter just under the number. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-29-2011, 11:05 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	By Golly you are right Mike... the 22nd run... I miscounted... Thanks for the correction. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-29-2011, 12:23 PM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	To fully identify a military luger: date of manufacture (on the chamber), toggle code (maker), PO8 (indicates 9mm 4" barrel) serial number with suffix letter, if present. Commericals without dated chamber need to be identified as to model, caliber and serial number. Some contract lugers have their own separate serial range, so in addition to the above, the exact contract, maker and serial should be noted. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]