Luger serial 600 series

Col. T · 03-09-2012, 10:42 AM

Hello luger friends. I am new to this and just wanted to say hello and ask a question. I am looking at all matching 63x serial numbered luger. The guy tells me it was made in the late 1800s. I was thinking of buying it for my first luger. Does it sound legit? cold it be a fake? Any ides on value? What you pay for a luger like that sight unseen?

drbuster · 03-09-2012, 11:06 AM

Col. T, beware, you are about to step in "luger quicksand"! Late 1800 "Lugers" were prototypes, called "Borchardt-Lugers" and are essentially museum pieces, if not outright faked. If you are aware of the military serial numbering system, a three digit luger came around every 10,000 lugers or so. A three digit comercial luger could be an early 1900 model but could also be a contract luger, many of which are valuable. Rather than just "looking" at this luger, instead take photos and post them here for honest answers!

alanint · 03-09-2012, 12:47 PM

Welcome to the forum!

Ask if there are any letters stamped below that serial number. These numbers, when present, are part of the gun's serial number and will help correctly date your gun.
As Herb said, good photos of all markings are essential for anybody here to provide you with help.
What is the asking price?

Col. T · 03-09-2012, 06:22 PM

$1,500. I will take some pictures soon and post them on here. Thanks everyone and anyone for their input, as this is all new to me. I have been wanting to get a Luger for a long while. I thought this sounded too good to be true. Anything eles I should look for on this gun?

Col. T · 03-09-2012, 06:43 PM

Here is the only picture I took of the luger. More will come later.

alanint · 03-09-2012, 07:10 PM

Your only photo is a bit confusing. Your picture shows a gun that was possibly made before mid 1913, (no stock lug), but it apparently has a holdopen device that was not retrofitted, (no obvious pin and proof stamp on the side of the receiver). There are no proofs on the right side of the receiver, which may or may not be right, depending on the balance of the gun.

It was most certainly made after 1906

The finish and grips appear to be original, but much more needs to be known before we can declare $1,500 a good price.

To start, please photograpgh ALL markings and visible numbers on the outside of the gun as close up as you can and add a few more overall photos.

Also, get a good photo of the frames backstrap, where the stock lug should be so that we can see if it was growned off or not.

DavidJayUden · 03-09-2012, 07:17 PM

Is that in .30 Caliber Luger?

Col. T · 03-09-2012, 07:20 PM

Is not .30 or 9mm. I have forgot now what it was seems like there was a 7mm or something mentioned. ?

alanint · 03-09-2012, 07:39 PM

7.65mm x 21mm is what we refer to as ".30 cal. Luger" So if you heard "7mm" it is probably a .30 cal. and a commercial, not a military pistol.

Ron Wood · 03-09-2012, 07:40 PM

7.65mm is .30 caliber.

mrerick · 03-09-2012, 08:40 PM

Value is $600-800.

Commercial Lugers are generally not valued as highly as military proofed Lugers.

I bought one in outstanding condition a couple of years ago for $650.

If it's a 1920s era Commercial pistol it should have the stock lug on the back of the handstrap. Years ago, some people ground these off in fear of ATF interpretation of what was and was not Class III (Short barreled rifles). If this was ground off, it would put it at the lower end of the value range I suggested.

Without photos of the top, barrel, receiver, barrel and frame markings it's hard to tell exactly what this is.

So, you're possibly looking at either an uninformed or deceptive seller with a price that looks 2x to 2.5x more than it's worth.

Marc

Col. T · 03-09-2012, 09:03 PM

I think you are right it is a 7.65mm. That sounds correct now.

I also am looking at another Luger. It is a 1914 erfurt with non matching serial numbers. Should I post in another area for info on that one or go a head and post pics and questions attached to this thread? Thanks again.

kmichaels90 · 03-09-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Col. T

I think you are right it is a 7.65mm. That sounds correct now.

I also am looking at another Luger. It is a 1914 erfurt with non matching serial numbers. Should I post in another area for info on that one or go a head and post pics and questions attached to this thread? Thanks again.

Being an Erfurt and therefore military you could post it in the P-08 military section. Though I don't know if it would be considered to far off topic if you put it here, being that I am still new here as well.

Col. T · 03-09-2012, 09:27 PM

I think I will start a new post on the 1914. Not to confuse the two lugers and also run the comments together. Thanks.

Edward Tinker · 03-10-2012, 12:50 AM

I would put it in the 'new collectors' area, gets lots of hits and is a good place for beginners to the hobby.

Remember, a mismatched Erfurt may be the same value as the gun above, except nicer to shoot in 9mm...

Ed

tudorbug · 03-10-2012, 11:08 AM

Col T.

If you are seriously interested in purchasing a luger, I humbly suggest that you look at Simpson's Ltd to get an idea of top end costs and then I would restrict myself to being patient until one of the old time members of this forum has one for sale that you believe satisfies your need.

In the meantime, I would do a lot of reading on his forum which has national and international experts (Ron Wood comes to mind as one of them as well as George Anderson) on lugers reading and and answering questions.

But, in any case, best of luck with your search.

LTC M.

Douglas Jr. · 03-16-2012, 09:03 AM

Col. T.

In addition to the wise advices above, it would be interesting to know what are you are looking for: a nice collectable Luger in top condition or something less valuable, to be taken to range and shot without worry about damage an historical/valuable gun?? A military or commercial gun? WWI or WWII? There are many, many variations...

I'm asking this because they are cathegories completely apart from each other and their respective price ranges are also different.

And welcome to the forum!

Douglas

03-09-2012, 10:42 AM	#1
Col. T User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger serial 600 series Hello luger friends. I am new to this and just wanted to say hello and ask a question. I am looking at all matching 63x serial numbered luger. The guy tells me it was made in the late 1800s. I was thinking of buying it for my first luger. Does it sound legit? cold it be a fake? Any ides on value? What you pay for a luger like that sight unseen?

03-09-2012, 06:22 PM	#4
Col. T User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Asking Price $1,500. I will take some pictures soon and post them on here. Thanks everyone and anyone for their input, as this is all new to me. I have been wanting to get a Luger for a long while. I thought this sounded too good to be true. Anything eles I should look for on this gun?

03-09-2012, 06:43 PM	#5
Col. T User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One Picture I took Here is the only picture I took of the luger. More will come later. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Col. T; 03-09-2012 at 06:50 PM. Reason: wrong picture

03-09-2012, 07:40 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	7.65mm is .30 caliber. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-09-2012, 08:40 PM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Value is $600-800. Commercial Lugers are generally not valued as highly as military proofed Lugers. I bought one in outstanding condition a couple of years ago for $650. If it's a 1920s era Commercial pistol it should have the stock lug on the back of the handstrap. Years ago, some people ground these off in fear of ATF interpretation of what was and was not Class III (Short barreled rifles). If this was ground off, it would put it at the lower end of the value range I suggested. Without photos of the top, barrel, receiver, barrel and frame markings it's hard to tell exactly what this is. So, you're possibly looking at either an uninformed or deceptive seller with a price that looks 2x to 2.5x more than it's worth. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-09-2012, 11:06 AM	#2
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Col. T, beware, you are about to step in "luger quicksand"! Late 1800 "Lugers" were prototypes, called "Borchardt-Lugers" and are essentially museum pieces, if not outright faked. If you are aware of the military serial numbering system, a three digit luger came around every 10,000 lugers or so. A three digit comercial luger could be an early 1900 model but could also be a contract luger, many of which are valuable. Rather than just "looking" at this luger, instead take photos and post them here for honest answers!

03-09-2012, 12:47 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Welcome to the forum! Ask if there are any letters stamped below that serial number. These numbers, when present, are part of the gun's serial number and will help correctly date your gun. As Herb said, good photos of all markings are essential for anybody here to provide you with help. What is the asking price?

03-09-2012, 07:10 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Your only photo is a bit confusing. Your picture shows a gun that was possibly made before mid 1913, (no stock lug), but it apparently has a holdopen device that was not retrofitted, (no obvious pin and proof stamp on the side of the receiver). There are no proofs on the right side of the receiver, which may or may not be right, depending on the balance of the gun. It was most certainly made after 1906 The finish and grips appear to be original, but much more needs to be known before we can declare $1,500 a good price. To start, please photograpgh ALL markings and visible numbers on the outside of the gun as close up as you can and add a few more overall photos. Also, get a good photo of the frames backstrap, where the stock lug should be so that we can see if it was growned off or not.

03-09-2012, 07:17 PM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Is that in .30 Caliber Luger?

03-09-2012, 07:20 PM	#8
Col. T User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is not .30 or 9mm. I have forgot now what it was seems like there was a 7mm or something mentioned. ?

03-09-2012, 07:39 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	7.65mm x 21mm is what we refer to as ".30 cal. Luger" So if you heard "7mm" it is probably a .30 cal. and a commercial, not a military pistol.

03-09-2012, 09:03 PM	#12
Col. T User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think you are right it is a 7.65mm. That sounds correct now. I also am looking at another Luger. It is a 1914 erfurt with non matching serial numbers. Should I post in another area for info on that one or go a head and post pics and questions attached to this thread? Thanks again.

03-09-2012, 09:27 PM	#14
Col. T User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think I will start a new post on the 1914. Not to confuse the two lugers and also run the comments together. Thanks.

03-10-2012, 12:50 AM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I would put it in the 'new collectors' area, gets lots of hits and is a good place for beginners to the hobby. Remember, a mismatched Erfurt may be the same value as the gun above, except nicer to shoot in 9mm... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-10-2012, 11:08 AM	#16
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	Col T. If you are seriously interested in purchasing a luger, I humbly suggest that you look at Simpson's Ltd to get an idea of top end costs and then I would restrict myself to being patient until one of the old time members of this forum has one for sale that you believe satisfies your need. In the meantime, I would do a lot of reading on his forum which has national and international experts (Ron Wood comes to mind as one of them as well as George Anderson) on lugers reading and and answering questions. But, in any case, best of luck with your search. LTC M.

03-16-2012, 09:03 AM	#17
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Col. T. In addition to the wise advices above, it would be interesting to know what are you are looking for: a nice collectable Luger in top condition or something less valuable, to be taken to range and shot without worry about damage an historical/valuable gun?? A military or commercial gun? WWI or WWII? There are many, many variations... I'm asking this because they are cathegories completely apart from each other and their respective price ranges are also different. And welcome to the forum! Douglas