Police S&W 38 - German?

Edward Tinker · 06-04-2012, 11:46 PM

I bought this at the same auction I went to last week, it had a dark blue on the barrel and 1/2 of the frame, the other half looked like it had been dipped in something.

So, using vinegar, it stripped the bluing in about 20-30 mins!!! Keep that in mind!

So, did a search and on the rear grip strap is this marking, a search of the internet showed that it 'might' be post war police marking?

comments?

CavScoutEurope · 06-05-2012, 10:49 AM

Any other markings? On the barrel maybe? It could have been captured during the First World War and then re-issued to the German forces. Just a guess.

John Sabato · 06-05-2012, 11:17 AM

Ed, I think that this is commonly referred to as the Victory Model... .38 S&W, not .38 Special right? They made lots of them during the war, and I am sure they were pressed into civilian service after the military disposed of them...

I think I remember that the serial number is inside the crane on the frame, and perhaps also under the grips? Herman Goering was carrying a S&W revolver when he surrendered. This gun is post WW1... 1940's timeframe. or later.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-05-2012, 01:12 PM

Looks like the trigger has been machine knurled?

rhuff · 06-05-2012, 02:54 PM

If my memory serves me(now that is always a question), all of the victory models had a "V" in the serial number. A large number of these were purchased from S&W by England, and were in 38S&W caliber which was their .380/200 caliber. They were considered the M&P series, that later became the Model 10 S&W. I believe the majority of the pistols sent to England had 5in bbl. and the Victory models made for the U.S. had 4in bbl. I am not sure what other countries purchased these pistols, but I imagine, quite a few.....S&W made a huge number of them.

John Sabato · 06-05-2012, 04:07 PM

Yes Jerry, The trigger has been "jewelled." A custom touch by a previous owner...

BTW, these pistols can only be converted from .38 S&W to .38 Special by replacement of the cylinder. The .38 S&W case may be shorter, but it is larger at the head than the .38 Special. Some of the guns so-called "converted" to 38 Special just had a chambering reamer run through the cylinder but I don't recommend anyone fire a .38 special in them unless the chambers have been measured by a competent gunsmith. Case head separation can be harmful to your health...

Ed,

Does the bottom of the grip strap say "U.S. Property"? under the lanyard loop?

06-04-2012, 11:46 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Police S&W 38 - German? I bought this at the same auction I went to last week, it had a dark blue on the barrel and 1/2 of the frame, the other half looked like it had been dipped in something. So, using vinegar, it stripped the bluing in about 20-30 mins!!! Keep that in mind! So, did a search and on the rear grip strap is this marking, a search of the internet showed that it 'might' be post war police marking? comments? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-05-2012, 11:17 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Ed, I think that this is commonly referred to as the Victory Model... .38 S&W, not .38 Special right? They made lots of them during the war, and I am sure they were pressed into civilian service after the military disposed of them... I think I remember that the serial number is inside the crane on the frame, and perhaps also under the grips? Herman Goering was carrying a S&W revolver when he surrendered. This gun is post WW1... 1940's timeframe. or later. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-05-2012, 01:12 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Looks like the trigger has been machine knurled? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-05-2012, 04:07 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Yes Jerry, The trigger has been "jewelled." A custom touch by a previous owner... BTW, these pistols can only be converted from .38 S&W to .38 Special by replacement of the cylinder. The .38 S&W case may be shorter, but it is larger at the head than the .38 Special. Some of the guns so-called "converted" to 38 Special just had a chambering reamer run through the cylinder but I don't recommend anyone fire a .38 special in them unless the chambers have been measured by a competent gunsmith. Case head separation can be harmful to your health... Ed, Does the bottom of the grip strap say "U.S. Property"? under the lanyard loop? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-05-2012, 10:49 AM	#2
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	Any other markings? On the barrel maybe? It could have been captured during the First World War and then re-issued to the German forces. Just a guess.

06-05-2012, 02:54 PM	#5
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	If my memory serves me(now that is always a question), all of the victory models had a "V" in the serial number. A large number of these were purchased from S&W by England, and were in 38S&W caliber which was their .380/200 caliber. They were considered the M&P series, that later became the Model 10 S&W. I believe the majority of the pistols sent to England had 5in bbl. and the Victory models made for the U.S. had 4in bbl. I am not sure what other countries purchased these pistols, but I imagine, quite a few.....S&W made a huge number of them.