7.65mm Truncated bullet

[RAY1946]

I have been reading many of the older posts in the shooting and reloading section. Mentioned in many of these posts is a truncated bullet for the original loading of this cartridge.

I have looked high and low and can't find a foto of one of these unique and obviously rare projectiles and/or rounds of ammunition. Is it possible that someone out there might have a foto of one of these rounds?

I am really not overjoyed with the choice of projectiles being available for this caliber and would like to design my own.Thanks,..................RayT

[nukem556]

Good luck! I don't know why none of the ammo component manufacturers no longer offer the 93grFMJ....surely there would be more demand for it than some of the exotic bullets I see. The Sierra 86 gr is often out of stock and backordered on Midway. I'm sure Luger ,Mauser , CZ52 and Tokarev shooters would snap up a heavier 93-100gr bullet.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by RAY1946

I have been reading many of the older posts in the shooting and reloading section. Mentioned in many of these posts is a truncated bullet for the original loading of this cartridge.

I must admit that I also have never seen a truncated 7.65 cal bullet/cartridge...just the round nose...

I have seen (and reloaded) 9mm truncated FMJ bullets for my Lugers (and 357 AutoMag)...and there are pics here (and elsewhere) of the original 9mm truncated bullet cartridges for the early Lugers...

I have two original 7.65 Luger cartridges, headstamped -

DWM
K K
471

Both are round nose FMJ...

There is only ~.325" of bullet protruding outside the case; that doesn't leave much room for truncation...

BTW: Some members have lamented the lack of truncated 9mm cartridges; Midway lists -

Fiocchi 124gr FMJ 9mm

$14.29/box 50

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/119...cone-box-of-50

[Ron Smith]

I've used Hornady 100 gr .312 XTPs in several .30 Lugers over the years. It shoots very well, with absolutely no sign of pressure issues. I shoot them in my .30 shooter now. They are very accurate, and never had a hint of a problem.

[Vlim]

Here you go

[sheepherder]

...And slightly off-topic, but someone here [Matt?] was looking for 7.65 French MAS (32 French Long) cartridge cases -

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/583...long-box-of-20

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

I've used Hornady 100 gr .312 XTPs in several .30 Lugers over the years. It shoots very well, with absolutely no sign of pressure issues. I shoot them in my .30 shooter now. They are very accurate, and never had a hint of a problem.

Ron,

Are you resizing these .312in. bullets down to .309in. before loading them, or just loading them as they are? I have wondered for a long time about trying the 110gr FMJ .309 bullets designed for 30 Carbine in a 30Luger brass, but have not done it yet.

[RAY1946]

Thanks so much for all the great replies!

Vlim, from what I can measure on the screen, that looks like about a 4mm(.157) flat on the nose. As always, thanks much for the great foto, I think many of us here on the forum have never seen a 7.65mm round with a truncated bullet.

I will definately use this info for the bullet. Again, thanks a lot..................RayT

[Ron Smith]

Originally Posted by rhuff

Ron,

Are you resizing these .312in. bullets down to .309in. before loading them, or just loading them as they are? I have wondered for a long time about trying the 110gr FMJ .309 bullets designed for 30 Carbine in a 30Luger brass, but have not done it yet.

I load them as they are. I've never had any problems. Nearly every .30 Luger I've slugged have been right at .310 give or take. The Hornady XTPs mic at a hair over .310 , not .312 as marked. They have been extremely accurate, and the top of the cannelure groove is exactly right for OAL on a .30 Luger.

The only "issue" has been that I had a stainless Mec-Gar mag they would bind in, due to the edge on the hollow point. I took it apart and polished the inside front with a dowel and 400 grit paper. It works fine now.

Ron

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I have wondered for a long time about trying the 110gr FMJ .309 bullets designed for 30 Carbine in a 30Luger brass, but have not done it yet.

I load 110gr FMJRN 30 carbine bullets in my C96 Mauser reloads; base drilled out to bring weight down to 93-95gr...

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in a post some time back...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25293

[RAY1946]

I slugged mine about 2 weeks ago and I am getting
.3102 across the grooves. However, I was able to slide the base of a .312 wadcutter about .050 past the end of the chamber, so there is a slight throat.....................

[Sieger]

RAY1946:

I have just what you have been looking for.

From the Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken 1904 Munitions-Katalog actual drawings of all of the original 7.65 bullets.

There are four rendered. One round nose, one round nose with a flat point, one round nose flat point with hollow point and one truncated cone (the one you are looking for).

All have a diameter of 7.83mm or .308 inches. Originals I have actually measured were all .309 inches.

Strangely, the original spec. Luger barrels are right at .311 inches (as are my 7.65 Mauser rifles).

I have been trying to get some folks interested in a custom mould cut to the original truncated cone design, but have not followed up.

Would you be interested?

Please PM me for a copy of the original designs.

Thanks!!


Sieger

[RAY1946]

I would be very interested. I have been checking out the Lee site and they seem to be pretty reasonable as far as producing a custom as long as it falls within certain parameters.

The bullet I am thinking of designing would definately have a gas-check shank. Once the current crop of crimp-on gas-checks are seated on a bullet, the gas-check becomes the base band and is about .085 high.

Thus, the overall length could be designed long enough to achieve the target weight(90-95grs.), while protecting the base from the flame temperature of a 25,000-30,000 load. Also incorporated in the design would be a flat point of about 4mm(.157) in diameter and a high diameter radius from the top driving band to the top of the bullet........................RayT

[G.T.]

Hi Sieger & Ray.... count me in... I will split whatever cost amoung however many to get a custom mold like that... should be two of four cavity though... and have a small radius on the trunc top flat edge(just like the jcketed bullet)... like the RCBS for the 9mm TC mold, I'm in boys! til....lat'r....GT

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by RAY1946

I would be very interested. I have been checking out the Lee site and they seem to be pretty reasonable as far as producing a custom as long as it falls within certain parameters.

The bullet I am thinking of designing would definately have a gas-check shank. Once the current crop of crimp-on gas-checks are seated on a bullet, the gas-check becomes the base band and is about .085 high.

Thus, the overall length could be designed long enough to achieve the target weight(90-95grs.), while protecting the base from the flame temperature of a 25,000-30,000 load. Also incorporated in the design would be a flat point of about 4mm(.157) in diameter and a high diameter radius from the top driving band to the top of the bullet........................RayT

Hi:

That sounds interesting.

By the way, Lee already has a TC bullet that might work well
in the Luger 7.65 as is. I think they sell it as a .32 cal. It is of tumble lube type somewhere around the correct weight.

Personally, I feel that a gas check on these bullets would be an over kill. I have shot a gazillion 9mm lead flat base non gas-check bullets through my two Lugers and have never had a leading problem. Handloaded properly, these have proven more accurate than my most accurate FMJ bullets, and frankly, that is saying quite a lot (six touching at 25 yards on a reqular basis).

Your thoughts?

Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Sieger & Ray.... count me in... I will split whatever cost amoung however many to get a custom mold like that... should be two of four cavity though... and have a small radius on the trunc top flat edge(just like the jcketed bullet)... like the RCBS for the 9mm TC mold, I'm in boys! til....lat'r....GT

Hi GT:

What about that Recoil Spring project?

Yes, the Lead RCBS 124 grain TC bullet is a very accurate bullet. This is my most accurate in the 9mm (properly handloaded, six touching on a regular basis at 25 yards).

Frankly, just downsizing that bullet design to 7.65 may be a good place to start a bullet design project. indeed!!! Remember, its the length of the bullet that really counts, not the weight (within reason).

Sieger

[Sieger]

Hey RAY1946"

Some where, in the back of my mind, I think that Fiocchi makes and markets TC FMJ 7.65 Luger ammo. Their 9mm FMJ TC product is really quite good. They call it a "Combat Bullet". The 9mm bullet design looks identical to the original German one to me (eyeball method only).

Your follow-up search may be quite informative.

Sieger

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

I load them as they are. I've never had any problems. Nearly every .30 Luger I've slugged have been right at .310 give or take. The Hornady XTPs mic at a hair over .310 , not .312 as marked. They have been extremely accurate, and the top of the cannelure groove is exactly right for OAL on a .30 Luger.

The only "issue" has been that I had a stainless Mec-Gar mag they would bind in, due to the edge on the hollow point. I took it apart and polished the inside front with a dowel and 400 grit paper. It works fine now.

Ron

Thank you for the info. I have an old issue of The Handloader Magazine where they did an article on reloading the 30 Luger round. They used some 32Cal bullets(.312), but sized them to .309in. before loading them. It is always of interest to me to find any bullet that can be used correctly in loading the 30 Luger brass.

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by postino

I load 110gr FMJRN 30 carbine bullets in my C96 Mauser reloads; base drilled out to bring weight down to 93-95gr...

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in a post some time back...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25293

I have read this post more than once with interest. I have a good supply of 30 Carbine 110gr JSP bullets and keep wondering about using them. I don't think that I want to set each bullet up and drill it out as you did, though(too lazy!!). I have found a 92gr LRN bullet that is working out very nicely at the current time. I am pleased with that bullet, but always looking for a FMJ or JSP bullet also. I have used the Hornady, an Sierra 86gr (.308) FMJ intended for the 30 Mauser, and they do pretty well for me. You just have to seat them below the cannalure for a correct OAL.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I don't think that I want to set each bullet up and drill it out as you did, though(too lazy!!).

me, too. That's why I made the jig to drill 10 at one time...