Police sear safety question

[skeeter4206]

Looking at the safety that was added to police lugers, i am curious how it actually worked. I see most that are around today still have the bar that runs across the top of the side plate. I noticed on mine that the side plate has a notch taken out of the topside and that bar on the top rides inside that notch. Im curious how that bar worked as a safety. Mine doesnt have the added lever by the trigger, dont know if it used to or not.



Just curious...

[Edward Tinker]

See the FAQ

it will answer many questions

[alanint]

The sear safety is designed to drop the little pin at the end of the bar into the sear slot when the sideplate is removed, so the upper portion of the pistol cannot be fired accidentaly.

As I'm sure you know, you can press in the sear when holding a complete upper in your hand and discharge a round. The sear safety was designed to prevent this.

[skeeter4206]

Gotcha! I just had it apart and noticed I couldnt press that portion of the sear bar to release the firing pin. So that bar on top has a pin that goes down into the sear. I didnt notice that at first. Now it makes since.

Thanks guys.

[skeeter4206]

So the picture I posted above, what are the red arrows pointing at? Is that a magazine safety? After doing a search and looking at threads on safetys, I believe that is the magazine safety.

[alanint]

You are correct. It is the magazine safety. This photo is of a complete safety, (assuming the spring, plunger, etc. inside are there). This safety was removed from the majority of police guns, as it was deemed cumbersome and unnecesary. Finding complete ones is a rare thing. Usually, the spring steel bar you see were snipped off just after the grip edge and all internals removed.

[Edward Tinker]

I am sorry, I know exactly what these are, but the FAQ has a section specifically on this?

29) Question: Is what is referred to as the sear safety on a Luger the same thing as the safety on the upper left hand side of the frame that is activated by the lever?

No, it is not, sear safeties were a Weimar and then Nazi police requirement, and is not found on army or navy lugers (unless that weapon was transferred to them).

This is how a sear safety works.
If the top part (the "cannon") of a Luger is removed from the frame and the firing pin is ****ed, it's possible to trip the firing pin by pressing in on the sear bar; especially the plunger at the front that can be pushed into the bar. Imagine what would happen if the chamber held a live round and that were done!
Apparently, it did happen often enough to become an issue so the Police pistols were equipped with the "sear safety". It consisted of a flat spring shaped like a long "z" and riveted to the back of the small hood that shields the sear bar. The front of the spring has a small pin that drops into a hole in the sear bar when the side plate is removed and prevents the bar from being depressed and releasing the firing pin. The top of the side plate is open so the pin in the front of the spring can move with the receiver under recoil. The back upper part of the side plate keeps the spring raised enough to prevent the pin from locking the sear bar. It's really a very simple setup. If I have a chance in the next day or two, I'll try to take a picture of my 1916 Erfurt Police pistol and show you what I've described above.

Compare these two side plates. The upper one is a 1929 u-block police, the sear safety is the little bent "tang" of metal visible above the side plate.



Details of sear safety. It is held by a rivet at one end and on the opposite end bears a small pin that blocks the sear and prevents the discharge of a partly dissembled Luger. The sear safety was a police requirement introduced by Prussian State Police orders dated August 30, 1933. It was not a military requirement.[/quote]


What is a magazine safety?

A magazine safety would have been installed after a Prussian police directive of August 30th 1933.
In 1937, the magazine safeties were directed to be removed. Some / most were actually physically removed and the hole where the clip of the safety held onto the frame was welded in and reblued. A few you see are like this, almost completely there, with the last bit clipped off. See the next two pictures, one showing the clip, the next the outline of the clipped area.

I quote Jan Still; Quote:
:A Police sear safety is located on the left side of the receiver. The remains of a magazine safety can be seen above the grip. It was installed under the 1933 orders for the Sear safety. Reportedly the magazine safety was not successful as almost all were deactivated.

[Lugerdoc]

The mag safety shown above has had the part that fits behind the trigger removed. Unfortunately, the design proved defective, because the spring would lose tention and the part behind the trigger would not move out when a mag was installed, making the pistol unfirable. TH

[skeeter4206]

I did try to do the FAQ search, but it did not get me to a thread that answered it for me at the time. Im sure if I kept reading through threads I eventually would have found the one. I put in sear safety in the search and I got a whole bunch of threads.

That was in the search drop down bar at the top. As for the FAQ, I never could get it to send me anywhere. So I dont know if I was doing it right or not.

But thanks Ed, and I do apologize. As I am just a curious person always wanting to figure things out.

[Dwight Gruber]

The Police Luger book (shipping is imminent) has a comprehensive section on police safeties, thotoughly illustrated.

--Dwight