Luger help needed

phansson · 01-30-2013, 10:29 AM

New to the forum, have all ways wanted a Luger. I am in the process of working out a trade and have been doing some research. Essentially, from my research I have learned some things, but overall it seems like you have to be an expert to really get it right. So the question comes to you. What year is this Luger and roughly what is the value? It has the straw colored parts (which are beautiful), all serial numbers match but I am confused about the stamps. Ser# 5*31 with a small squiggly L suffix mark. Above that it has an N with a crown above it. This is all under the barrel. I have not been able to find the "year" marked anywhere.

It has one magazine, with no markings that I can see but a wooden "bottom". No holster, take down tool...

Here are some pics.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

mrerick · 01-30-2013, 11:06 AM

Hi Patrick, and welcome to the forum.

Is this Luger in .30 Luger caliber (rather than 9mm Luger caliber)? You can check by trying to insert a #2 pencil into the muzzle. If it fits very tightly, or won't fit in the pistol is .30 Luger.

If it's .30 Luger, you most probably are looking at a DWM manufactured Alphabet Commercial from the early 1920s (probably 1922).

The Crown/N proof is a commercial nitro proof.

What's unusual with the pistol you're looking at is that the safety sear block bar normally would not be numbered on one of these.

This one looks to be in nice shape, but I can't tell if it's been refinished. Are there "halos" around the serial number digits on the barrel? If not, it's been refinished.

As to value, the .30 Luger alphabet commercial pistols are not as highly valued as military ones. Also, if the safety is a mismatch, that drops value. If it's refinished that drops value. No magazine visible. If original and period that's good. If after market that drops the value.

A couple of years ago, I bought a nice all matching 95% alphabet commercial Luger with original magazine in original finish for $675.

Marc

phansson · 01-30-2013, 11:19 AM

Thanks for the help mrerick. It does have the "halos" around the serial number under the barrel.

I believe you are right, I was under the impression that this was a 9mm but it does appear to be .30. I just used a micrometer on it. The inside dimensions on the luger are 7.2mm and my P38 is 8.5mm. Wow, didn't even notice that. I just assumed it was a 9mm.

Also, why would all of the straw parts have 31 on them matching the serial number?? I would have assumed they were all original.

phansson · 01-30-2013, 11:31 AM

Also, I thought if the gun had "straw colored" parts it was a military issue?

DavidJayUden · 01-30-2013, 11:42 AM

The use of straw coloring and rust bluing was used up into 1937, and is not an indicater of Military vs. commercial use. Strawed parts should be numbered to the last 2 digitis of the gun. This one looks like a nice commercial .30, but I'd get squeemish at anything over $700, as the .30's are expensive to shoot.
dju

phansson · 01-30-2013, 12:05 PM

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help.

phansson · 02-11-2013, 12:01 AM

I ended up picking up this Luger today and I appreciate the help. We took it to the range and it shot like a dream.

I would like to replace the front sight. It looks like it was "ground down". Where would you find an original replacement?

Edward Tinker · 02-11-2013, 12:20 AM

Tom Heller should have them, I have four or five. Put a few pictures of your front sight...

phansson · 02-11-2013, 12:33 AM

Thanks Edward,

The gun is at work, but this picture I found on the internet looks EXACTLY like my gun. Is this something that was common?

Also, stupid question, but how many rounds can you put in your mag. It would function properly with about 5-6 rounds, anything higher and the bullets would get stuck on the feed ramp at a bizarre angle.

ithacaartist · 02-11-2013, 10:43 AM

This is a "Marbles" brand sight, a retrofit from the 50s-60s. I think they are not made currently, but appear on eBay every once in a while. They're easier to see than the originals. You may want to pick up one of Tom's or Ed's for the sake of originality, but if your Luger hits the mark well with this one, just keep using it and reserve the original for later display/resale.

The typical original Luger mag holds 8 rounds. Some, I think, hold 7, but the norm is 8. Ordinarily, it is recommended that you obtain some Mec-Gar brand, new mags for shooting, as they have proven to be the best, most reliable performers in pretty much all variations of the P.08, the Mauser Parabellum, and early Lugers. This saves the risk of breakage of an original mag, and the new ones function well. Yours has a rough spot, dirt/corrosion inside, or needs some lube--There are a few issues that can develop with mags; these are the easiest to address first-off. If no improvement, we'd wonder about spring condition, bent feed lips, worn follower, etc.

phansson · 02-11-2013, 10:49 AM

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, the original sight isn't in my possession. I knew it was a "not original" sight when I purchased the gun, I will try to get one from Tom or Ed.

I will also pick up some Mec-Ger mags! It looks like they only make 9mm, will that work with the 9mm parabellum? Thanks again!

alanint · 02-11-2013, 11:33 AM

The same magazine works for both .30 Luger and 9mm Luger.

If you are going to shoot this gun regularly, you may consider just keeping the Marbles sight, if it shoots to point of aim. Replacing it with an original or correct profile sight may mean having to grind the new sight down until it shoots point of aim.

01-30-2013, 10:29 AM	#1
phansson User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger help needed New to the forum, have all ways wanted a Luger. I am in the process of working out a trade and have been doing some research. Essentially, from my research I have learned some things, but overall it seems like you have to be an expert to really get it right. So the question comes to you. What year is this Luger and roughly what is the value? It has the straw colored parts (which are beautiful), all serial numbers match but I am confused about the stamps. Ser# 5*31 with a small squiggly L suffix mark. Above that it has an N with a crown above it. This is all under the barrel. I have not been able to find the "year" marked anywhere. It has one magazine, with no markings that I can see but a wooden "bottom". No holster, take down tool... Here are some pics. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Attached Thumbnails

02-11-2013, 12:20 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Tom Heller should have them, I have four or five. Put a few pictures of your front sight... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-11-2013, 12:33 AM	#9
phansson User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Edward, The gun is at work, but this picture I found on the internet looks EXACTLY like my gun. Is this something that was common? Also, stupid question, but how many rounds can you put in your mag. It would function properly with about 5-6 rounds, anything higher and the bullets would get stuck on the feed ramp at a bizarre angle. Attached Images

02-11-2013, 10:43 AM	#10
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	This is a "Marbles" brand sight, a retrofit from the 50s-60s. I think they are not made currently, but appear on eBay every once in a while. They're easier to see than the originals. You may want to pick up one of Tom's or Ed's for the sake of originality, but if your Luger hits the mark well with this one, just keep using it and reserve the original for later display/resale. The typical original Luger mag holds 8 rounds. Some, I think, hold 7, but the norm is 8. Ordinarily, it is recommended that you obtain some Mec-Gar brand, new mags for shooting, as they have proven to be the best, most reliable performers in pretty much all variations of the P.08, the Mauser Parabellum, and early Lugers. This saves the risk of breakage of an original mag, and the new ones function well. Yours has a rough spot, dirt/corrosion inside, or needs some lube--There are a few issues that can develop with mags; these are the easiest to address first-off. If no improvement, we'd wonder about spring condition, bent feed lips, worn follower, etc. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

01-30-2013, 11:06 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Hi Patrick, and welcome to the forum. Is this Luger in .30 Luger caliber (rather than 9mm Luger caliber)? You can check by trying to insert a #2 pencil into the muzzle. If it fits very tightly, or won't fit in the pistol is .30 Luger. If it's .30 Luger, you most probably are looking at a DWM manufactured Alphabet Commercial from the early 1920s (probably 1922). The Crown/N proof is a commercial nitro proof. What's unusual with the pistol you're looking at is that the safety sear block bar normally would not be numbered on one of these. This one looks to be in nice shape, but I can't tell if it's been refinished. Are there "halos" around the serial number digits on the barrel? If not, it's been refinished. As to value, the .30 Luger alphabet commercial pistols are not as highly valued as military ones. Also, if the safety is a mismatch, that drops value. If it's refinished that drops value. No magazine visible. If original and period that's good. If after market that drops the value. A couple of years ago, I bought a nice all matching 95% alphabet commercial Luger with original magazine in original finish for $675. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-30-2013, 11:19 AM	#3
phansson User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the help mrerick. It does have the "halos" around the serial number under the barrel. I believe you are right, I was under the impression that this was a 9mm but it does appear to be .30. I just used a micrometer on it. The inside dimensions on the luger are 7.2mm and my P38 is 8.5mm. Wow, didn't even notice that. I just assumed it was a 9mm. Also, why would all of the straw parts have 31 on them matching the serial number?? I would have assumed they were all original.

01-30-2013, 11:31 AM	#4
phansson User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Also, I thought if the gun had "straw colored" parts it was a military issue?

01-30-2013, 11:42 AM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	The use of straw coloring and rust bluing was used up into 1937, and is not an indicater of Military vs. commercial use. Strawed parts should be numbered to the last 2 digitis of the gun. This one looks like a nice commercial .30, but I'd get squeemish at anything over $700, as the .30's are expensive to shoot. dju

01-30-2013, 12:05 PM	#6
phansson User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks guys, I appreciate the help.

02-11-2013, 12:01 AM	#7
phansson User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I ended up picking up this Luger today and I appreciate the help. We took it to the range and it shot like a dream. I would like to replace the front sight. It looks like it was "ground down". Where would you find an original replacement?

02-11-2013, 10:49 AM	#11
phansson User Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, the original sight isn't in my possession. I knew it was a "not original" sight when I purchased the gun, I will try to get one from Tom or Ed. I will also pick up some Mec-Ger mags! It looks like they only make 9mm, will that work with the 9mm parabellum? Thanks again!

02-11-2013, 11:33 AM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The same magazine works for both .30 Luger and 9mm Luger. If you are going to shoot this gun regularly, you may consider just keeping the Marbles sight, if it shoots to point of aim. Replacing it with an original or correct profile sight may mean having to grind the new sight down until it shoots point of aim.