VOPO Luger frame

[OD#3]

I acquired a VOPO Luger today. It is force matched like most of them, with a 1936 cannon, S/42 toggle train, what appears to be an original WWII barrel, and a difficult-to-identify frame. While cleaning it, I took some pictures of the areas I believe will help an expert identify this frame. Unfortunately, the letter under the serial number has been partially obliterated and is very hard to read. It looks like possibly an "h" or "k", but I'm not sure. Of some interest is the front of the frame rails; they're hardly beveled at all. I'd really appreciate any help identifying this. Thanks.

Also, anyone know who this importer mark belongs to on the barrel? It isn't stamped very well, and I'm having trouble reading it.

[SteveM]

Not sure about the frame but the barrel appears to be made by steyr, E/623.

[tain669]

I'm new to the subject of VOPO Lugers .Could you give mesome morei info on this ?

[OD#3]

I'm new to the subject of VOPO Lugers .Could you give mesome morei info on this ?

Well, if you peruse this forum much, you'll see many posts about them. But in a nutshell, the DDR (East Germany) used (among other weapons) Lugers captured by the Soviet Union to arm their police forces after WWII. These pistols are refered to as "VOPO" Lugers, because "VOPO" is an acronym for "volkspolezei" (people's police). About the only thing definitive about VOPO Lugers is that there is little definitive about them. Most of them were extensively rebuilt and "force matched" using parts from one pistol to rebuild another. It is common to see mismatched parts that have had their original numbers "Xed" out and replaced with other numbers, either stamped or electropenciled. Most have had their barrels replaced, and most have been refinished--often many times, often with little attempt to remove pitting. And they usually bear mottled composite grips that look like a kind of bakelite made up of resins, plastics, and fabric adorned with a "bullseye" logo.

Most people consider these "shooter" lugers, and their price reflects this. I've read and heard that there is growing collector interest in these, but I think it would be a difficult niche to become an expert in. They are a crapshoot of too many variations and combinations, and would therefore be difficult to authenticate as being in their "original as-issued to the DDR" condition. But I have seen a few that were evidently in excellent condition as received by the DDR and therefore retained all their original parts; I would imagine that these would be much more valuable than the average VOPO. I suppose condition is everything with these.

I posted this same inquiry on other forums, and I've managed to learn that my frame is a DWM--probably 1917--and that what looked like a partially-obliterated serial number suffix is actually probably an "f". The barrel is Steyr (thanks SteveM!); I don't know how rare that is among VOPO's. The importer is E. C. C. S. A. PENNSAUKEN N J. This is supposedly the import mark of the Crossroad Gun Shop of Pennsauken, New Jersey which, interestingly, initiated a lawsuit against the U.S. Customs Service in 1987 when Customs seized 1,000 Lugers that Crossroad was trying to import. Customs suspected that the Lugers had come from East Germany which would have been in violation of U.S. Law at the time (it would have been illegal to import firearms from Eastern Bloc countries) These pistols were suspect because the shipping labels had been torn off the individual boxes, but enough of the label remained on some of them for Customs to see the name of an East German shipping airline. The importer maintained that the Lugers had come from Great Britian via Austria, and that the Austrian company denied getting the pistols from East Germany; they claimed that the pistols had just been placed in some old boxes they had. I don't know how the lawsuit was settled; ironically, U.S. Customs was correct in their suspicions. But I suspect that Crossroad eventually got their 1,000 Lugers and that mine may be one of them. I'm still researching to find out how many Lugers Crossroad imported.

I value the VOPO's for what they represent--pieces of Cold War history and wartime Lugers that "soldiered on" decades after most of the nicer pieces in people's collections became safe queens--even if most of them were mixmasters. They are also reported to be good shooters due to their receiving relatively recent attention by qualified armorers sometimes well into the 1970's and possibly beyond. I have yet to fire mine to see if it is among the good shooters, but I'll be sure to post something about it when I do.

[Dwight Gruber]

There is an extensive chapter on Deutsche Volkspolizei ("Vopo") Lugers in the book Police Lugers.

--Dwight

[Andyd]

The top side of the receiver might give some more clues but the absence of the Mauser hump on the frame, lets me guess that it is an earlier frame.

The Vopo star is on the left side, which is odd.

East German armourers were not concerned with collectors values but to make guns work with their skill and what they had on hand.

I have found most E.G. P.08s shoot quite well and only one that did not just have some reliability issues but that I never got to work for more than three consecutive shots, a beautiful G-date.

[OD#3]

Actually, the star is on the right side above the front of the trigger guard, but it's been peened out. This is the second VOPO Luger I've ever messed with. I shot a bud's about 10 years ago. It was rough to look at but functioned flawlessly. I did manage a range trip with mine last week. Ammo was hard to scrounge up, and I ended up trading some .45 ACP to a buddy for some. I wantetd Winchester White box. He came up with two boxes of Fiocchi and one of Remington UMC. I was very much impressed with the Fiocchi. Velocity was around 1080 f.p.s., and overall length was quite long (1.159). Function was flawless with that, and accuracy was superb. The Remington wouldn't chamber. If I loaded a couple of Fiocchi's on top of 6 Remingtons, it fed fine. But 8 rounds of Remington caused the nose to ram into the top of the chamber mouth and seated the bullet deeper into the case. I ruined a few rounds this way until I gave up with the Remingtons. Incidentally, the Remington was quite a bit shorter. Another buddy made some truncated cone lead reloads for me. These weren't as long as the Fiocchi, but they were longer than the Remingtons and fed fine well--though they weren't nearly as accurate as the Fiocchi. All in all, it was a successful range trip. I have a truncated cone mold on backorder. If/when it finally arrives, I'll try some of Seiger's recipes. Sure wish I had more of that Fiocchi ammo though.

[Andyd]

That is what I meant, the star is actually on the right side on your gun. Usually it is on the left side, often half covered by the take down lever.

When you reload with 124gr TC lead and use a slightly less progressive powder and a moderate load, the gun should be quite accurate. Most of mine can do the same as my SIG P210, a good 90%. With Sako FMJ I do get the best and most consistent results.

I have three Vopo Lugers and one is basically all original and matching with little sign of rework but a new Czech barrel.

I personally am a shooter, not a collector and value a good Vopo Luger higher than an average DWM P.08.